Why I don't like the Wicca movement

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22 Dec 2023, 12:59 pm

Gerald Gardner, the man who gets such high praise for being the "father of witchcraft", was really a sexist homophobe, an attention seeker, and a phony. He made things up in regards to how witchcraft should be done and apparently too many people (mostly edgy teenagers) took him way too seriously.

What bothers me about Wicca is that it has now dominated the internet and the media to the point that everyone now believes that this is what witchcraft really is. A lot of it was based on absurd lies he and his followers made up on the spot and wiccans think the "Wiccan Rede" is some universal law that every witch and occultist should be forced to abide by.

The only reason nobody says anything against the real BS of Wicca is because they're not Christiains which has apparently become the religion to hate these days.

https://www.pattiwigington.com/gerald-g ... e-ardanes/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Gardner

Quote:

Lois Bourne, one of the High Priestesses of the Bricket Wood Coven, accused Gardner of homophobia:

"Gerald was homophobic. He had a deep hatred and detestation of homosexuality, which he regarded as a disgusting perversion and a flagrant transgression of natural law... 'There are no homosexual witches, and it is not possible to be a homosexual and a witch' Gerald almost shouted. No one argued with him."[134]

False Educational Claims
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In a 1951 interview with a journalist from the Sunday Pictorial newspaper, Gardner said he was a Doctor of Philosophy from Singapore and also had a doctorate in literature from Toulouse.[115] Later investigation by Doreen Valiente suggested that these claims were false. The University of Singapore did not exist at that time and the University of Toulouse had no record of his receiving a doctorate. Valiente suggests that these claims may have been a form of compensation for his lack of formal education.[135]

Media Engagement
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Valiente further criticises Gardner for his publicity-seeking – or at least his indiscretion. After a series of tabloid exposés,[136] some members of his coven proposed some rules limiting what members of the Craft should say to non-members. Valiente reports that Gardner responded with a set of Wiccan laws of his own, which he claimed were original, but others suspected he had made up on the spot. This led to a split in the coven, with Valiente and others leaving.[137

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TwilightPrincess
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22 Dec 2023, 1:39 pm

Gardner sounds like a cult leader.

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Mona Pereth
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22 Dec 2023, 2:06 pm

Most forms of Wicca today, or at least the variants thereof that are most public and therefore most influential, are very different from Gardnerian Wicca, although most Wiccans still use at least some of Gardner's ideas and/or rituals.

And the vast majority of Wiccans (even Gardnerians, as far as I can tell) have long since outgrown Gardner's homophobia.

Gardner lived in an era when pretty near everyone was homophobic. Wicca today should not be judged on this basis.

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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 22 Dec 2023, 2:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

RedDeathFlower13
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22 Dec 2023, 2:10 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:

Gardner sounds like a cult leader.

In my opinion Gerald Gardner was to witchcraft what Joseph Smith was to Christianity (the founder of the Church of Ladder Day Saints aka Mormons).

They both were shady men who made up a lot of absurd crap and now they have entire religions spreading.

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TwilightPrincess
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22 Dec 2023, 2:14 pm

I don’t know that much about Wicca, but Mormonism is just a drop in the bucket as far as Christianity is concerned.

Joe Smith was a cult leader for his particular offshoot of Christianity. Could Gardner be similar for his particular brand of Wicca?

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22 Dec 2023, 2:21 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

Most forms of Wicca today, or at least the variants thereof that are most public and therefore most influential, are very different from Gardnerian Wicca, although most still use some of Gardner's ideas and rituals.

And the vast majority of Wiccans (even Gardnerians, as far as I can tell) have long since outgrown Gardner's homophobia.

Gardner lived in an era when pretty near everyone was homophobic. Wicca today should not be judged on this basis.

Regardless of the homophobia thing what you are saying just proves my point about how people are willing to overlook wicca's origins because they believe it's a happier healthier alternative to Christiainity.

Honestly the fact that he was a homophobe doesnt bother me nearly as much as the fact that he was making up lies.

And even without Gardner in the picture it's gotten to the point where it's near impossible to research the occult and folk magic without wicca somehow worming its way in.

I'm really annoyed with the way wicca influence has dominated new age books and websites, especially when I get the feeling that these people don't actually understand what they're talking about.

And not to mention all the "Love and Light" aka toxic positivity.

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22 Dec 2023, 2:24 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:

As someone else pointed out I guess Wicca isnt quite organized enough to count as a true cult but its origins starting with Gerald Gardner were rather shady.

Then again I hear Aleistar Crowley was much worst... my Mom told me not to read his books because he was a drug-addled sex addict who thought of himself as a prophet. She's not even religious but she thought he was dangerously weird.

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TwilightPrincess
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22 Dec 2023, 2:27 pm

I guess I was just thinking about what I read regarding the Bricket Wood coven that was founded by Gardner: “The coven is still active in Bricket Wood today, though it maintains secrecy and its history was only known up until the 1970s.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bricket_Wood_coven

I guess I was wondering if specific covens could be considered cults although, once again, I don’t know much about it.

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22 Dec 2023, 2:36 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:

I imagine some could be? I know that some have actually exploited their members into sex. Many modern wiccans have tried to warn new members against the ones that do.

Personally I never belonged to a coven. I was what you would call a "solitary witch" meaning I practiced wicca on my own (something that I didnt even realize a lot of wiccans frown on).

Since I quit being Wiccan I decided to explore other traditional forms of folk magic. Appalachian Folk Magic and Hoodoo started to intrigue me because my great grandmother was into it but she never called herself a "witch" because to her these things were just tradition in the Deep South and she was raised a Christian.

Since I realizes no religion is truly all good or all evil I started reopening my mind to Christiainity but from a more esoteric standpoint.

I find the fact that scripture in Psalms can be used for everything from healing to cursing to prophecy very fascinating. :nerdy:

And of course I like reading cards too. That's a tradition that goes back centuries.

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goldfish21
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23 Dec 2023, 11:16 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

What bothers me about Wicca is that it has now dominated the internet and the media to the point that everyone now believes that this is what witchcraft really is.

I haven't seen much of anything on the internet or media about Wicca or witchcraft. I'm sure it's on the internet If You Look For It, but I don't think it's dominating the internet.. and certainly not the media - where I can't recall ever hearing/seeing it mentioned. Satanism has been in the news a few times over the last few years due to a new satanic church starting after school programs for kids that faux news is having faux outrage over, but I can't recall anything about Wicca or witchcraft in the news ever.. not even around halloween time.

Anyways, never heard of the guy but he sounds like a jerk who was full of himself. He's dead and not a household name, so, whatever - he can't have made that large of impression on society.

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23 Dec 2023, 11:33 am

goldfish21 wrote:

Anyways, never heard of the guy but he sounds like a jerk who was full of himself. He's dead and not a household name, so, whatever - he can't have made that large of impression on society.

You've obviously never visited Salem, Massachusetts.

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goldfish21
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23 Dec 2023, 11:39 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

Anyways, never heard of the guy but he sounds like a jerk who was full of himself. He's dead and not a household name, so, whatever - he can't have made that large of impression on society.

You've obviously never visited Salem, Massachusetts.

I have not. Neither have most people, internet users, or members of the media. Maybe the guy has some localized fame there, but that's it.

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RedDeathFlower13
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23 Dec 2023, 11:46 am

I don't even understand why you're posting in this topic if you're not even interested in the subject of witchcraft or the occult. This is about criticising the wicca movement. Which contrary to your dismissive attitude it actually is a pretty widespread movement for those who are into it.

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TwilightPrincess
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23 Dec 2023, 11:58 am

Wicca is more popular than some might think and the movement is growing.

Quote:

The number of witches and Americans practicing Wicca religious rituals increased dramatically since the 1990s, with several recent studies indicating there may be at least 1.5 million witches across the country. A Trinity College study conducted in 1990 estimated only about 8,000 Wiccans in the U.S., but the increase has been led by a rejection of mainstream Christianity among young Americans as well as a rise in occultism.

With 1.5 million potential practicing witches across the U.S., witchcraft has more followers than the 1.4 million mainline members of the Presbyterian church.

https://www.newsweek.com/witchcraft-wic ... on-1221019

This is from 2018, so there might be even more now.

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23 Dec 2023, 12:21 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:

Wicca is more popular than some might think and the movement is growing.

Quote:

https://www.newsweek.com/witchcraft-wic ... on-1221019

This is from 2018, so there might be even more now.

It is a very widespread movement contrary to what goldfish seems to think. Maybe not for people who are not into it or against the idea of witchcraft. But it's become an increasingly popular movement especially among young people who are using it to rebel against Christiainity (hell that was one reason why I got into it as a teenager plus I was heavily influenced by movies like "The Craft" as a kid in the 90's).

Perhaps its not as popular in Canada as it is in the UK and The States? I dunno...

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23 Dec 2023, 12:32 pm

There are apparently 25,000-30,000 in Canada although it's hard to find good data on the subject.
https://globalnews.ca/news/1645977/wicc ... priestess/

It's possible that there's more in the US and Canada but people are less inclined to admit to it on surveys because they are concerned about stigma. For this reason, I think the numbers are conservative.

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