How to talk about God without offending believers?

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belijojo
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17 Dec 2023, 6:49 am

I don't mean to offend, although it looks like。
The part that interests me is this: demon can claim to be God's representative and call believers to war,By “interpreting” the Bible,as long as he is sufficiently familiar with the Bible and has strong logical skills.
God must have written something in the book to prevent this from happening,For example, Allah does not allow any form of statue. Did Jesus say anything?
Now that I know Jesus asked people to read the original book, it is comprehensive and beautiful, I want to know something else
You know what I'm talking about if you know anything about history.


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naturalplastic
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17 Dec 2023, 11:29 am

you're making the same point that Mark Twain made when he said that "even the Devil can cite scripture for his purposes".

And...that very quote by Twain is a great tool to use in the kinda discourse you're talking about.



Honey69
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17 Dec 2023, 11:53 am

belijojo wrote:
For example, Allah does not allow any form of statue. Did Jesus say anything?


The Jews already had the Second Commandment by the time of Jesus--there would have been no point for Jesus to repeat this.

Too bad, though--Buddhists, Hindus and Catholics have some impressive statues.

What they did to Buddhist statues in Afghanistan was unforgivable.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/tali ... s-rcna6307

Chinese communists also did a lot of damage to religious art.


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belijojo
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17 Dec 2023, 12:25 pm

Honey69 wrote:
The Jews already had the Second Commandment by the time of Jesus--there would have been no point for Jesus to repeat this.
Too bad, though--Buddhists, Hindus and Catholics have some impressive statues.
What they did to Buddhist statues in Afghanistan was unforgivable.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/tali ... s-rcna6307

Chinese communists also did a lot of damage to religious art.

the Second Commandment?It’s a noun I’ve never heard of. I’ll learn more about it tomorrow morning.
That chinese party was too radical and devoid of any respect for the arts in the early days of the nation. Now they have converged somewhat but still not enough.


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Last edited by belijojo on 17 Dec 2023, 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

naturalplastic
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17 Dec 2023, 12:27 pm

That is odd about "graven images".

Old Testament forbade ANY images of ANY thing (on heaven or earth).

Christ didnt have much to say about it.

The Muslims doubled down on that commandment.

Because Christ didnt say much about it the Catholic church became the biggest generator of visual religious art on the planet. Stained glass windows of the Gothic Cathedrals, and all of the great art of the Renaissance masters....frescoes, statues, etc.

The Protestant Reformation restored the Jewish attitude in Christianity of opposing graven images. But the Protestant Reformation also coincided with the invention of the printing press, which enabled the spreading of the faith through the written word without reliance upon visual art in cathedrals. Just print Bibles and print them in the vernacular and then every plow boy can know scripture as well as a priest. And doesnt need the visual aids of art to learn the stories of the Bible.

The new religion combined with the new tech helped make Protestant culture more democratic. But less visually interesting than Catholic culture.



naturalplastic
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17 Dec 2023, 12:32 pm

belijojo wrote:
Honey69 wrote:
The Jews already had the Second Commandment by the time of Jesus--there would have been no point for Jesus to repeat this.
Too bad, though--Buddhists, Hindus and Catholics have some impressive statues.
What they did to Buddhist statues in Afghanistan was unforgivable.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/tali ... s-rcna6307

Chinese communists also did a lot of damage to religious art.

the Second Commandment?It’s a noun I’ve never heard of. I’ll learn more about it tomorrow morning.
That chinese party was too radical and devoid of any respect for the arts in the early days of the nation. Now they have converged somewhat but still not enough.


He is talking about the "Ten Commandments" give by God to Moses. The second of which is "no graven images".



belijojo
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17 Dec 2023, 12:33 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
That is odd about "graven images".

Old Testament forbade ANY images of ANY thing (on heaven or earth).

Christ didnt have much to say about it.

The Muslims doubled down on that commandment.

Because Christ didnt say much about it the Catholic church became the biggest generator of visual religious art on the planet. Stained glass windows of the Gothic Cathedrals, and all of the great art of the Renaissance masters....frescoes, statues, etc.

The Protestant Reformation restored the Jewish attitude in Christianity of opposing graven images. But the Protestant Reformation also coincided with the invention of the printing press, which enabled the spreading of the faith through the written word without reliance upon visual art in cathedrals. Just print Bibles and print them in the vernacular and then every plow boy can know scripture as well as a priest. And doesnt need the visual aids of art to learn the stories of the Bible.

The new religion combined with the new tech helped make Protestant culture more democratic. But less visually interesting than Catholic culture.

Charming history! Protestantism and the Reformation, I am a newcomer to this field and have a huge interest in it.


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funeralxempire
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17 Dec 2023, 2:04 pm

It's hard to discuss make-believe with true believers. :?


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Honey69
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17 Dec 2023, 4:01 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
That is odd about "graven images".

Old Testament forbade ANY images of ANY thing (on heaven or earth).



Well, the Catholics do like to talk about the images on the Ark of the Covenant

https://www.ncregister.com/blog/idolatr ... d-cherubim


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Nagolbud
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17 Dec 2023, 5:15 pm

Many people forget Jesus Christ came with a sword, he offended most people. The fact is the truth offends those that hate it, those that live in illusions, those that choose their delusions over reality. Jesus Christ and God will always be offensive to those that hate him. Speak your mind, without regret, while having empathy for those you speak to.

Another thing to keep in mind, most self proclaimed Christians are fake. The Bible teaches FAITH ALONE in Jesus Christ while all religious denominations teach works based salvation, prosperity gospel, and all kinds of other nonsense. The Bible is the only book in the realm that teaches Faith Alone in Jesus Christ.

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funeralxempire
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17 Dec 2023, 5:24 pm

Each flavour of Christianity likes to insist it's the correct One True Religion.

And they're all equally correct/incorrect. :nerdy:


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


auntblabby
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17 Dec 2023, 5:25 pm

i thought the graven images ban specifically referred to only yahweh? that mere mortals should not try to image or picture or even imagine god as the totality of god is beyond human comprehension and would only serve to distort the meaning of god?



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17 Dec 2023, 5:33 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Each flavour of Christianity likes to insist it's the correct One True Religion.

And they're all equally correct/incorrect. :nerdy:


That's why it's best to just read the Bible yourself..



funeralxempire
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17 Dec 2023, 5:38 pm

Nagolbud wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Each flavour of Christianity likes to insist it's the correct One True Religion.

And they're all equally correct/incorrect. :nerdy:


That's why it's best to just read the Bible yourself..


I wouldn't be such a staunch non-believer if I hadn't of read the bible.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Nagolbud
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17 Dec 2023, 5:39 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Nagolbud wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Each flavour of Christianity likes to insist it's the correct One True Religion.

And they're all equally correct/incorrect. :nerdy:


That's why it's best to just read the Bible yourself..


I wouldn't be such a staunch non-believer if I hadn't of read the bible.


So you trust the experts more? As you believe their scientific bible of evolution, and trust they understand what happened 50 million years ago?

Even though hydrologic sorting (real science) proves evolution is a lie..

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funeralxempire
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17 Dec 2023, 5:48 pm

Nagolbud wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Nagolbud wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Each flavour of Christianity likes to insist it's the correct One True Religion.

And they're all equally correct/incorrect. :nerdy:


That's why it's best to just read the Bible yourself..


I wouldn't be such a staunch non-believer if I hadn't of read the bible.


So you trust the experts more? As you believe their scientific bible of evolution, and trust they understand what happened 50 million years ago?

Even though hydrologic sorting (real science) proves evolution is a lie..

Image


Yes, I trust the current scientific understanding more than I trust any 'Creation science', especially when I've seen how poorly the claims made by creation "scientists" hold up to scrutiny from actual science.

Jeez, you can't even contribute papers to AiG unless you're a creationist, which seems consistent with their goal of peddling easily disproven claims, rather than doing science.

I don't trust the people who peddle creation science because they're consistently shown to be hucksters at best.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.