For-profit Christian Companies and 2 Corinthinians 2:17

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Are Dave Ramsey, Hobby Lobby, Chick-Fil-A Peddlers for Profit
Yes 100%  100%  [ 6 ]
No 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 6

Texasmoneyman300
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20 Apr 2024, 1:30 am

2nd Corinthians 2:17 condemns peddling God's word for profit. Do you think for-profit Christian companies and corporations peddle God's word for profit. I have always thought they did but I wanted to know what yall think. Some notable for-profit Christian companies in America today include The Lampo Group led by personal finance guru Dave Ramsey, Chick-Fil-A and Hobby Lobby. I know many people patronize these businesses because they are Christian. I prolly know many people who will eat Chick-Fil-A over Kentucky Fried Chicken for that reason. It seems obvious to me that Chick-Fil-A is not trying their best to make as money as possible because they are not open on Sunday.

I dont think Hobby Lobby is open that day either or at least it wasnt when I was growing up as a young man in the Bible Belt. Dave Ramsey and Hobby Lobby and the like are the epitome of peddling God's word for profit to me. I know many of yall will prolly think of televangelists and megachurch pastors but to me thats different even though its very similar because technically a church is a non-profit corporation. I just dont think that getting paid 1 Million a year simply for being a pastor at a megachurch meets the technically definition since churches by definition are non-profit.Maybe I think this because I have Asperger's and I can be pedantic and crucial details really matter to me. Also I am posting this thread for advice because I am working on starting a Interfaith Ecumenical Christian personal financial coaching and stewardship firm in order to help millennials, Gen Z, and Gen Alpha learn about personal finances. I dont know if this should be non-profit or for-profit because I dont want to be guilty of peddling Christ's word for literal profit. I just think being non-profit would be better but most people I am close with think it would be better to have it for-profit.

My Aunt suggested I have it as a ministry of my church plant.So what are yalls thought about profiteering from God's word and Hobby Lobby and Chick-Fil-A and Dave Ramsey?Are they guilty of peddling God's word for profit.Should my firm be for-profit or non-profit??? Dave Ramsey reminds me of televangelist Kenneth Copeland because both have become near billionaires from being Christians even though Kenneth Copeland got rich through non-profit ministry and profit versus non-profit is the key distinction to me.

However I still think Kenneth Copeland violated the spirit of the verse even though it seems like he may not be guilty by the letter of the verse.Sorry for the long post lol haha.I guess the taxing authorities are lucky Dave Ramsey did not incorporate his business as a non-profit church or parachurch ministry because it likely would have saved Dave Ramsey millions in taxes.Personally I think Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruze, Hobby Lobby and Chick-Fil-A are borderline sacriligious or sactiligiuous for making boat loads of profit from the Christian Faith.



Yugoslav1945
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20 Apr 2024, 3:52 am

These companies are creating their own "tithes". Everyone knows that no such Christian should owe the money to the church in return for "forgiveness" for it is nothing but a mere sin of "Greed", the one of the seven deadly sins. Try living in Medieval Europe where you were forced to pay 10% of your income to the church or be killed in the most inhumane way possible.


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Texasmoneyman300
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20 Apr 2024, 4:20 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
These companies are creating their own "tithes". Everyone knows that no such Christian should owe the money to the church in return for "forgiveness" for it is nothing but a mere sin of "Greed", the one of the seven deadly sins. Try living in Medieval Europe where you were forced to pay 10% of your income to the church or be killed in the most inhumane way possible.

Personally I dont believe in the concept and theology of the 7 deadly Sins since I am not a Roman Catholic.I think the whole tithe thing is ironic in Evangelical Christianity because the Israelites paid way more tithe than just 10 percent.It was prolly closer to 20 to 40 percent than 10 percent because there was at least 3 tithes as part of the Mosaic Law maybe more.Also the tithe system in the Mosaic Law was basically a involuntary tax.I have heard it said that even the poorest jews during biblical times paid about 20 to 40 percent of their income in taxes to Ancient Israel.20 to 4urch0 percent tithe is just a educated guess on my part.My church teaches that nobody should give to the church unless they want to. They always try to stress that you should only give money to church if you are not compelled to do so.Basically church does not want the money from anyone who feels compelled to give and is not a cheerful giver.



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20 Apr 2024, 4:20 am

Does Chick Filet loose money, or does it make more money, because of the owner's using the business to express his personal religious beliefs? I dunno.

I think of Chick filet as a company that "peddles" chicken. Not religion. But happens to have a religious owner who runs his company along religious lines. He doesnt open on Sunday...which probably costs him money and maybe market share, but isnt controversial, and he doesnt cater weddings if they are same-sex (which IS controversial).

But at the same time he probably attracts religious customers because of the religion based publicity as well. But I dont think of him "getting rich from religion".


The secular equivalent would be a business owner who "goes green", or "goes woke", and hopes not to "go broke by going woke" . But who might also might luck out and make more money from going woke or green.

On the other hand the guy who runs the "Ark Encounter", Ken Haim, is absolutely running a "for profit religious private company". Making Genesis into Disneyland. Its a theme park that doubles as a pulpit for his brand of religion. And he runs afoul of certain laws because he has run his enterprise in a ways that blur the lines between a charity and a for profit company. But his motivation seems to be belief, and not profit per se (he's gotta have cash flow to keep the thing going).

Kenneth Copeland is a total scammer. And a fantastically successful one at that.



Yugoslav1945
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20 Apr 2024, 4:28 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
These companies are creating their own "tithes". Everyone knows that no such Christian should owe the money to the church in return for "forgiveness" for it is nothing but a mere sin of "Greed", the one of the seven deadly sins. Try living in Medieval Europe where you were forced to pay 10% of your income to the church or be killed in the most inhumane way possible.

Personally I dont believe in the concept and theology of the 7 deadly Sins since I am not a Roman Catholic.I think the whole tithe thing is ironic in Evangelical Christianity because the Israelites paid way more tithe than just 10 percent.It was prolly closer to 20 to 40 percent than 10 percent because there was at least 3 tithes as part of the Mosaic Law maybe more.Also the tithe system in the Mosaic Law was basically a involuntary tax.I have heard it said that even the poorest jews during biblical times paid about 20 to 40 percent of their income in taxes to Ancient Israel.20 to 4urch0 percent tithe is just a educated guess on my part.My church teaches that nobody should give to the church unless they want to. They always try to stress that you should only give money to church if you are not compelled to do so.Basically church does not want the money from anyone who feels compelled to give and is not a cheerful giver.


Again, a sinful fallacy for a religious institution to profit from people by involuntarily taking their money when it violates the theology. This ofc is coming from me, a practically secular agnostic but baptized as a Roman Catholic person. I know very well that religion is not supposed to be commercialized and capitalize on people based on their religious views cause that is something that clergy in the Medieval times or ancient times as you mentioned would enjoy compared to today. Rationally, it is immoral to take people's money away for simply believing in said religion.

Another example comes from the Ottoman times when the Jizya tax system was present and religious groups that were not Muslim were taxed heavily. Another is the so-called "Tolerance taxes" where Jews had to pay ludicrous money in order "not to be expelled" from the Austrian Empire in the 18th century. The yearly tax, in the beginning, was 20,000 florins (gulden) but then it increased slowly and by 1813 it was 160,000 florins.


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- Josip Broz Tito (Ljubljana, 1948)


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20 Apr 2024, 4:28 am

The Apostle Paul wrote:
Ministers of the New Covenant

[12] Now when I went to Troas to preach the gospel of Christ and found that the Lord had opened a door for me,
[13] I still had no peace of mind, because I did not find my brother Titus there.  So I said goodbye to them and went on to Macedonia.

[14] But thanks be to God, who always leads us as captives in Christ’s triumphal procession and uses us to spread the aroma of the knowledge of him everywhere.
[15] For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.
[16] To the one we are an aroma that brings death; to the other, an aroma that brings life.  And who is equal to such a task?
[17] Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit.  On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.

This is just the Apostle Paul doing his usual humble-brag routine regarding his own personal ministry, nothing more.  Citing it in an attempt to critique corporations that claim to be Christ-centered is a misapplication of Biblical teaching to say the least, and a total non-sequitur in every respect.


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Texasmoneyman300
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20 Apr 2024, 4:38 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Does Chick Filet loose money, or does it make more money, because of the owner's using the business to express his personal religious beliefs? I dunno.

I think of Chick filet as a company that "peddles" chicken. Not religion. But happens to have a religious owner who runs his company along religious lines. He doesnt open on Sunday...which probably costs him money and maybe market share, but isnt controversial, and he doesnt cater weddings if they are same-sex (which IS controversial).

But at the same time he probably attracts religious customers because of the religion based publicity as well. But I dont think of him "getting rich from religion".


The secular equivalent would be a business owner who "goes green", or "goes woke", and hopes not to "go broke by going woke" . But who might also might luck out and make more money from going woke or green.

On the other hand the guy who runs the "Ark Encounter", Ken Haim, is absolutely running a "for profit religious private company". Making Genesis into Disneyland. Its a theme park that doubles as a pulpit for his brand of religion. And he runs afoul of certain laws because he has run his enterprise in a ways that blur the lines between a charity and a for profit company. But his motivation seems to be belief, and not profit per se (he's gotta have cash flow to keep the thing going).

Kenneth Copeland is a total scammer. And a fantastically successful one at that.

I remember hearing during a speech I attended at a MLM retreat years ago that the whole being closed on sundays is the reason why Chick-Fil-A will never do an IPO on the stock market and go public.My dad said that he would buy their stock if they ever went public.Who knows...maybe the future generations of the Cathy family will take the company public.

I know Kennneth Copeland is a total scammer like Joel Osteen but basically to me thats different because a church is a non-profit corporation so I just think that as long as someone like Kenneth Copeland is making money from being a non-profit thats not technically peddling for profit.Ya my pastor is real into the Ark Encounter.He has gotten people from church to travel all the way to Kentucky to see it.Jim Bakker tried to make a Christian version of Disney decades ago but he went to jail for fraud for overselling his timeshares at the resort among other things.Also I learned recently that the PTL club lost their tax-exempt status partly because it was making too much profit and the whole Christian theme park was basically commercial in nature like Six Flags.Also I was listening to Telltale years ago and he said that Ken Ham got a lot of corporate welfare through tax incentives and subsidies from the government in Kentucky which I hate that he did that for multiple reasons.Ya I reckon you are right about Chick-Fil-A because he says from the pulpit that Chick-Fil-A is "the Lord's Chicken."As a energy industry person I think the real money in going Green is from the tax subsidies.My pastor has also flown to Kentucky to the Ark Encounter in his private planes.I decided not to donate to the church after I learned of my pastors mulitiple private aircraft.



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20 Apr 2024, 2:57 pm

Gosh!

Your pastor picks from his fleet of private planes? To fly to the Ark Experience?

You and I should study THIS Seventies documentary about the preacher Marjoe...it's a good text book for how to make zillions as a "Charismatic preacher".



https://youtu.be/v5RN0ND-9Lc



Texasmoneyman300
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21 Apr 2024, 9:53 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Gosh!

Your pastor picks from his fleet of private planes? To fly to the Ark Experience?

You and I should study THIS Seventies documentary about the preacher Marjoe...it's a good text book for how to make zillions as a "Charismatic preacher".



https://youtu.be/v5RN0ND-9Lc

That is correct although the planes are not huge planes.I heard a rumor from a friend at church that the pastor makes 200,000 to 250,000 dollars per year.I have no idea if that is true but its possible. He seems to be a abnormally high-paid church of Christ preacher because a lot of church of Christ pastors cant afford groceries and have no retirement or healthcare.He also rides motorcycles or at least he did.I have watched video about Marjoe online.I am a former child pastor myself so it brings back memories although I can assure you I never made money doing it so money was for sure not the motivation unlike Marjoe.



Yugoslav1945
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22 Apr 2024, 12:15 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Gosh!

Your pastor picks from his fleet of private planes? To fly to the Ark Experience?

You and I should study THIS Seventies documentary about the preacher Marjoe...it's a good text book for how to make zillions as a "Charismatic preacher".



https://youtu.be/v5RN0ND-9Lc

That is correct although the planes are not huge planes.I heard a rumor from a friend at church that the pastor makes 200,000 to 250,000 dollars per year.I have no idea if that is true but its possible. He seems to be a abnormally high-paid church of Christ preacher because a lot of church of Christ pastors cant afford groceries and have no retirement or healthcare.He also rides motorcycles or at least he did.I have watched video about Marjoe online.I am a former child pastor myself so it brings back memories although I can assure you I never made money doing it so money was for sure not the motivation unlike Marjoe.


The fact that the pastor is riding a motorcycle makes him look like a badass in the name of God.


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"In a socialist society such phenomena must and will disappear. In the old Yugoslavia national oppression by the great-Serb capitalist clique meant strengthening the economic exploitation of the oppressed peoples. This is the inevitable fate of all who suffer from national oppression."

- Josip Broz Tito (Ljubljana, 1948)


Texasmoneyman300
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22 Apr 2024, 1:20 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Gosh!

Your pastor picks from his fleet of private planes? To fly to the Ark Experience?

You and I should study THIS Seventies documentary about the preacher Marjoe...it's a good text book for how to make zillions as a "Charismatic preacher".



https://youtu.be/v5RN0ND-9Lc

That is correct although the planes are not huge planes.I heard a rumor from a friend at church that the pastor makes 200,000 to 250,000 dollars per year.I have no idea if that is true but its possible. He seems to be a abnormally high-paid church of Christ preacher because a lot of church of Christ pastors cant afford groceries and have no retirement or healthcare.He also rides motorcycles or at least he did.I have watched video about Marjoe online.I am a former child pastor myself so it brings back memories although I can assure you I never made money doing it so money was for sure not the motivation unlike Marjoe.


The fact that the pastor is riding a motorcycle makes him look like a badass in the name of God.

Good point.



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22 Apr 2024, 7:44 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Gosh!

Your pastor picks from his fleet of private planes? To fly to the Ark Experience?

You and I should study THIS Seventies documentary about the preacher Marjoe...it's a good text book for how to make zillions as a "Charismatic preacher".



https://youtu.be/v5RN0ND-9Lc

That is correct although the planes are not huge planes.I heard a rumor from a friend at church that the pastor makes 200,000 to 250,000 dollars per year.I have no idea if that is true but its possible. He seems to be a abnormally high-paid church of Christ preacher because a lot of church of Christ pastors cant afford groceries and have no retirement or healthcare.He also rides motorcycles or at least he did.I have watched video about Marjoe online.I am a former child pastor myself so it brings back memories although I can assure you I never made money doing it so money was for sure not the motivation unlike Marjoe.


The fact that the pastor is riding a motorcycle makes him look like a badass in the name of God.


Not all motorcycles make you look "bad ass". Most modern models are quite yuppie looking.

But...if you were to play that game...equip yourself with a Harley Hawg...and start a "gang" of Christian bikers...then you would have to call yourselves..."Heaven's Devils"? Maybe? (to show that you're the opposite of the "Hell's Angels")? :lol: