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Bestiola
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21 May 2024, 9:52 am

TheNet wrote:
While evolution seems a lot like nonsense to me, a lot of things in the Bible seem like nonsense to me too. Like Noah's ark. Just how did Noah manage to feed all those animals? And how did the carnivorous animals eat after they left the ark?


Jews just copied that story from the Babilonians, while being there.

Quote:
We’ve known since 1872, from another cuneiform tablet that came to the British Museum, that there were Mesopotamian flood myths that long antedated the one in Genesis. Other tablets surfaced, and the flood story is given in Tablets XI and XII of the Epic of Gilgamesh, written around 2000 BC.

https://newrepublic.com/article/116287/ ... -pre-bible

List of the flood myths, several from Babylon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths


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naturalplastic
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21 May 2024, 11:21 am

TheNet wrote:
While evolution seems a lot like nonsense to me, a lot of things in the Bible seem like nonsense to me too. Like Noah's ark. Just how did Noah manage to feed all those animals? And how did the carnivorous animals eat after they left the ark?


Thats just the beginning...of the errors in both internal and in external logic of the Noah's Ark story.

God created everything in the Universe in one week in the year 4004 BC, but despite being perfect God apparently messed up, and didnt like what he had created, so he wiped out the earth with the Flood 1700 years later around the year 2300 BC.. And started over. So all humans and all animals can only trace thier ancestry back to...not even six thousand years ago to Creation, but only to 4300 years ago- to the later flood.

But we find fossils of extinct animals like dinosaurs, and trilobites, and mastadons. So were these creatures all killed in the Flood? You might be tempted to say yes. But no....that violates theology according to some including Ken Haim(creater of the Ark Experience theme park). Haim claims that the dinosaurs survived the flood and only became extinct in the centuries after the flood. I dunno what he has to say about trilobites and mastadons.

So Noah and his family had to wrangle T-Rexs and Brontosaurs onto the Ark as well. And feed them and keep them alive as well.

Well...I could go on for pages listing the nonsense in Noah's Ark.



TheNet
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21 May 2024, 12:54 pm

I have heard people say usually jokingly that the reason the dinosaurs went extinct was because Noah couldn't fit them on the ark.



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21 May 2024, 12:59 pm

I think evolution is the only credible explaination at this point. If scientists come up with better theories in the future I am all ears. Religious explainations is by defintion nonsense. If they were not nonsense they would be scientific theories.


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21 May 2024, 1:08 pm

TheNet wrote:
I have heard people say usually jokingly that the reason the dinosaurs went extinct was because Noah couldn't fit them on the ark.


Sounds like bad people doing weed around a friends house and spending some of the evening laughing at you. :D


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naturalplastic
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21 May 2024, 2:39 pm

TheNet wrote:
I have heard people say usually jokingly that the reason the dinosaurs went extinct was because Noah couldn't fit them on the ark.


Yep. The dinosaurs, and a number of other species...


https://youtu.be/_EPsuOEH1fY



Harmonie
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21 May 2024, 5:48 pm

Evolution is pretty solid at this point. It's hard for me to even grasp people not believing in it. When I last took biology I saw how much evolution just makes biology make sense. and it's actually really neat, makes learning biology so much more interesting with how much it all ties together!

Evolution is just so evident, everywhere.


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21 May 2024, 5:56 pm

Yes, the theory of how life started and some of the details of evolution may be a tad tricky to fathom, but evolution itself seems self-evident to me. I don't see how it could be avoided if there's selective pressure on a long enough series of generations.



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21 May 2024, 8:48 pm

TheNet wrote:
I have heard people say usually jokingly that the reason the dinosaurs went extinct was because Noah couldn't fit them on the ark.
I have also heard people tell similar jokes.  The jokes get old quickly.



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22 May 2024, 10:03 am

I know people who actually believe that nonsense.

In the JW brochure Enjoy Life on Earth Forever:

Image


It was published in 1982. To be completely fair, I don’t think they’d include the dinosaurs in recent publications, but many rank and file members still think that dinosaurs were killed in the Flood.


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22 May 2024, 1:35 pm

TheNet wrote:
I have heard people say usually jokingly that the reason the dinosaurs went extinct was because Noah couldn't fit them on the ark.


Meanwhile we've found the impact site associated with K-Pg extinction.


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ToughDiamond
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22 May 2024, 3:07 pm

TheNet wrote:
I have heard people say usually jokingly that the reason the dinosaurs went extinct was because Noah couldn't fit them on the ark.


Yes that must have been a joke or a very lame guess. An omniscient deity wouldn't have specified the dimensions of the boat and then issued a command to rescue at least 2 of every animal if they couldn't possibly fit. That would have been silly. But maybe he had a word with Noah later and said "by the way, don't bother with the dinosaurs," but left that out of his book like he left out the bit that reconciles the two different stories of how Judas died - "The rope snapped." Scripture doesn't tell the whole truth.



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22 May 2024, 3:31 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
TheNet wrote:
I have heard people say usually jokingly that the reason the dinosaurs went extinct was because Noah couldn't fit them on the ark.


Yes that must have been a joke or a very lame guess. An omniscient deity wouldn't have specified the dimensions of the boat and then issued a command to rescue at least 2 of every animal if they couldn't possibly fit. That would have been silly. But maybe he had a word with Noah later and said "by the way, don't bother with the dinosaurs," but left that out of his book like he left out the bit that reconciles the two different stories of how Judas died - "The rope snapped." Scripture doesn't tell the whole truth.


I wonder, do biblical literalists think Noah had breeding programs for all the life that's incompatible with being put on a boat for 40 days, or do they just handwave those creatures?

If their flood occurred, there's a lot of smaller life that would much more difficult to save than say velociraptors, and yet I'm supposed to believe Noah didn't save velociraptors but did save mayflies and cicadas.

Biblical literalism seems to require one to be both deeply ignorant and completely unwilling to engage in even the most basic critical thinking.


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22 May 2024, 3:45 pm

Saying its "either Creation of evolution" is a false dichotomy. It could have been a combination of both. Or neither.

A house building itself has nothing to do with it because it didnt happen that way.

Evolution happened over millions of years. So organisms had time to evolve through natural selection from simple to complex.

The fossil record shows gradual change through time.

The non living lithosphere of the earth changes gradually over time. Mountains get eroded and wash into the sea, rocks change into other kinds of rock. So if the non living mineral part of the earth can change gradually over time you would expect living things to change over many generations. Even plants are more dynamic than rocks.



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22 May 2024, 3:51 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
I wonder, do biblical literalists think Noah had breeding programs for all the life that's incompatible with being put on a boat for 40 days, or do they just handwave those creatures?

If their flood occurred, there's a lot of smaller life that would much more difficult to save than say velociraptors, and yet I'm supposed to believe Noah didn't save velociraptors but did save mayflies and cicadas.

Biblical literalism seems to require one to be both deeply ignorant and completely unwilling to engage in even the most basic critical thinking.
In my experience, they avoid thinking about the details and/or make vague references to God magic.

When I was a kid, I thought that it must’ve been something like this:

Image


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funeralxempire
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22 May 2024, 3:53 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Saying its "either Creation of evolution" is a false dichotomy. It could have been a combination of both. Or neither.


Usually people who claim it's creation are endorsing a specific creation myth that contradicts the theory of evolution via natural selection. It's not really a false dichotomy, they're dismissing evolution because it contradicts what they believe occurred, not because they believe it must be one or the other.

Most of biblical creationists will still concede the idea of 'created kinds' and some degree of evolution occurring within those kinds. I'd argue that's an indication they generally seek to avoid creating a false dichotomy and instead just believe they have their answer.

It can't be neither, since life needs to have some sort of origin and all natural explanations except evolution haven't been able to withstand being scrutinized (like the idea that life has always existed exactly as it is).


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