[ OPINION ] What is NOT persecution of Christians

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What is NOT persecution of Christians

“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” -- attributed to many

Note that the following statements are my own opinions. Although they are based on decades of reading and listening to Christians expressing these very same claims, I realize that your opinions may be different.

[opinion=mine]

Christians, for centuries, have enjoyed the privilege of being the primary arbiters of belief, ethics, and morality. Now they have to share that privilege with people openly espousing and practicing alternate beliefs (“pagans” & scientists), ethics (agnostics & atheists), and moralities (the LGBTQ+ community).

This has caused some Christians to feel threatened, bullied, or even persecuted. This has also grown further to encompass ordinary human behaviors, some of which include:

• Being asked by others to not share the Gospel with them.

• Being corrected on matters of science.

• Being corrected on matters of Scripture.

• Being questioned on their Christian beliefs (even if only for information).

• Having to share political and social influence with those who do not hold Christian beliefs, or who hold alternate Christian beliefs.

• Having to share public spaces and events with those who do not hold Christian beliefs, or who hold alternate Christian beliefs.

• Hearing others attribute their successes solely to their own initiative, preparation, effort, perseverance, and maybe even "luck".

• Hearing others deny the Gospel or present an alternate Gospel.

• Hearing others give their reasons for their alternate beliefs, ethics, or morality.

• Knowing that the majority of society has decided that they do not like the way Christians have treated, and continue to treat, those who do not hold Christian beliefs, or who hold alternate Christian beliefs.

Obviously, this list does NOT include violence, threats of violence, discrimination, harassment, or any other form of illegal physical or verbal assault experienced by Christians since the day of Christ's crucifixion.

The point I am trying to get at is that Christians should just get used to the fact that they are no longer the ONLY sources of beliefs, ethics, or morality, that they no longer have as much power and influence as they enjoyed in the past, and that they should just learn to peacefully and humbly get over it.

[/opinion]

Yeah, it's ridiculous. None of those things are persecution of Christians.

However, one thing I have noticed about conservative Christianity is that the believers have an incredible sense of (false) entitlement over everything and if that false entitlement is called into question, they instantly get defensive and claim that they're being treated unfairly.

You know... Despite the fact that the conservative Christians are the ones who have been treating people unfairly. =/ For a conservative Christian, they think it's more fair for same-sex marriage to be made illegal than for a legal clerk (a job taken by choice) having to sign a legal document of a same-sex couples' marriage. It's absurd.

These people say that they love freedom and liberty, they use those terms all of the time... But they are a major threat to those concepts in reality. and it's like... They can't see that? They have a twisted version of freedom/liberty. It's like Orwellian in nature. The pledge I was made to stand up and say every day in school had us say "liberty and justice for all". Liberty/freedom are not concepts one can claim to be for when they deny them from so many groups for no reason. We have got to take the narrative back from these anti-freedom/liberty theocrats.

That's why whenever those awful conservative Christian organizations are brought up, I do not call them what they call themselves, because I refuse to give into their Orwellian rhetoric. It's Alliance DESTROYING Freedom, and it's ANTI-Liberty Counsel.

Conservative Christians do not understand why the US was founded the way it was. Sure, we could go off on the many ways that US was founded in awful ways by slave holders, but in terms of religion, they had a good idea, and the conservative Christians resent that. The separation of church and state is there to ensure freedom of religion. You can't have the latter without the former. The conservative Christians may think that if their religion is established it won't matter to them personally (ugh, again, very anti-freedom/liberty stance!) but IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. Christianity is not a monolith. Not even conservative Christianity!! It's not even close!

Right now the Religious Right may include a variety of flavors of conservative Christianity, but the instant these groups have power, they will start fighting with each other. It is inevitable. Note how Evangelicals don't consider Catholics to be Christians.

Besides, on a smaller scale just look at the implications of what Lyin' Walters in Oklahoma (my former state) has done with his stupid "Bible in public schools" order. This already has the potential to backfire in conservative Christians' faces. Because... They're now allowing government-run schools to decide which specific translation of the Bible, what verses are read, how it's interpreted will be taught to their own children. That is a recipe for conflict. It is conflict that is completely unnecessary when we leave religion out of government.

Conservative Christians seem utterly ignorant to history. Their false entitlement over everything blinds them to the implications of their actions.

I don't know why conservative Christians can't just live and let live. The US's system is set up to benefit religious freedom for all, but the conservative Christians hate freedom. That's a huge problem. They must be stopped from getting into power, they are a huge threat to our country and freedoms. Otherwise, they need to stop and reflect, see what they're doing for what it is and what it will result in, and only then, after they've matured should they join the rest of us at the adult table again.

A post you made earlier showed the Gadsden Flag (Don't Tread on Me flag) modified to say at the bottom "so I can tread on you". (or something to that effect) That sums up my feelings spot-on. Religious freedom means to them I can practice any religion BUT if you don't practice the same one as me I am conceited enough to think you deserve persecution.

They consider being kicked off an online platform for saying "homosexuality is a sin" or "there are only two genders", or that certain people will go to hell, to be persecution.

They consider the Abrahamic God being referred to an an "imaginary friend" or "sky daddy", or being called a "bigot" for espousing outdated beliefs to be bullying.

In some European countries, citing Leviticus 18:22 is considered prosecutable hate speech. A pastor in Sweden was charged under their laws (his conviction was later overturned).

I would sympathize more, but their hatred of queers is not a necessary aspect of the religion. Christians fixate on that particular sin so much that you'd think they barely care about others. Christian businesses will cry foul when forced to serve gays, yet at the same time, I've never once seen a conservative Christian business refuse service to ex-convicts, for example. I've heard of Christian conservative doctors refusing to help queers, but I've never heard of them not wanting to help a thief who was shot robbing a store.

Saying that hating a certain group is okay because your religion supposedly demands it is not a good precedent. As recently as this year, I saw Marjorie Taylor Greene (iirc, may have been someone else) say that she was concerned about people trying to ban the Bible for being anti-Semitic. The Bible explicitly states that all Jews and their descendants bear collective responsibility for killing Jesus Christ. Martin Luther himself suggested it is sinful for Christians to not hate Jews. But Christians can't get away with demonizing Jews publicly as they could in centuries past, because we, as a society, recognized that using religion to demonize an entire group of people has fatal consequences.

The homophobic tropes that conservative Christians use are also not exclusive to them. Non-Abrahamic religions use many of the same arguments. I've seen atheists use many of the same arguments. These arguments predate the Christian religion, and probably predate even Judaism in some places. Christianity developed in what was already a homophobic society--it only makes sense they would use their new religion to rationalize their pre-existing prejudices.

And finally, obviously, there are millions and millions of Christians who think there is nothing wrong with being queer. There are millions of queer Christians. This kind of damages the argument that Christianity MUST be homophobic. This is why you see pro-queer Christians characterized as being not "real" Christians. I'm sure there are Christians out there who think you're not a real Christian unless you openly, actively hate Jews too.......

Here you go!

Thanks

That dang flag. Why is it that the people who fly that flag are always the ones who are the most likely to tread on me?

I've personally thought of it as "Don't tread on my right to tread on you". That's all I see when I see that flag. Libertarianism in the US has completely lost its way and become just as big government on social issues as the far right Republican party has... and I'm just thinking, definitionally how can they even call themselves Libertarians anymore? But then I remember that the right has spent so many years twisting the definition of words/terms (like freedom, liberty, law & order, small government, religious freedom, etc.) that I suppose that Libertarian is just another victim of this Orwellian nonsense.

That's why I created the meme -- it expresses the true intent that drives the "Don't Tread on Me" crowd (e.g., The original Gadsden flag had only the words "Don't Tread On Me".  I added the rest.).

Renaming "Christmas Trees" "Holiday Trees" and putting a menorah up in a place with few or no Jews is tone-deaf political correctness, not a war on Christmas.

Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 27 Jul 2024, 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Also, "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" is not a war on Christmas, the Christ, OR Christianity.

I gotta figure out a way to get my Christian friends to stop trying to "correct" other people's behavior, when said behavior is not an act of hostility.

What gets me is how these same conservative Christians who throw around the "Judeo-Christian" buzzword turn around and get upset when we acknowledge that Jewish holidays exist in December, too.

They're so full of it. SMH.

I don’t think most that are pissed off about “holiday tree” or “happy holidays” are pissed off about acknowledging Hanukah or Kwanza they are pissed off about Christmas not being acknowledged.

If you are a sales clerk in a store during December and a customer is buying items associated with Christmas or wearing a cross management should allow you to say “Merry Christmas” to the customer. If there are a decent amount of Jews that are your customers put up a menorah out of respect. In an area with few or no Jews putting up a menorah is virtue signaling.

When I was Jewish kid growing up in a mostly Gentile area December was a lonely time and it did bother me when people wished me a Merry Christmas. All around me was fun, people in a happy mood that I was not a part of. As I got older I realized.
1. If you are a small minority of any kind be it Jewish or Autistic people won’t cater to you because they have no need to and don’t know
2. A lot of Christians get stressed and depressed during Christmas time
3. FOMO is immature
4. The surreal quiet of Christmas Eve and Day is great
5. People that wish me a Merry Christmas are wishing a good thing for me not offending me, so don't take offense.
6. With todays technology I am not forced to listen to Christmas music for weeks on end
7. There are a lot of fun elements to Christmas, so while I don’t participate I can still enjoy observing all the goings on.
8. Inevitably January will come and it will all be over

Hatred and disrespect of Christianity does exist in America and just because America is a Christian majority country does not mean we should ignore or dismiss it or say Christians got it coming to them.

There is little if any persecution of Christians in America. It is ginned up by people who understand there are lot of easily outraged spoiled snowflakes.

I can't help but have a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to the whole "virtue signaling" thing. In my experience, it has beenm a buzzword used by people who are actually against diversity, but think if they use this, they can cover it up. Not saying that there is no such as virtue signaling, but the use of it I've seen in the past has bothered me. To me, its best use is like in the instance where a company makes a rainbow logo and sells Pride merch in June, but is also discriminatory toward LGBT people in practice and donates to anti-LGBT causes. That's the use of the concept I accept. Anything else I'm wary of.

Anyway, I worked at Walmart during President Obama's second term. You know, the supposed height of "political-correctness". I think what I experienced working there at Christmas time just demonstrates that all of this is silly. You say that being inclusive in areas where diversity is not present was happening and was supposedly a big problem. Well, I lived in a hyper conservative area at the time I was working at Walmart, and instead of seeing that inclusiveness pushed on us, I saw the very opposite. "Merry Christmas" was plastered on every single aisle during Christmas time. There was absolutely no veneer of inclusiveness. The Walmart took every opportunity it could to sell to Christians and nothing else. Heck, I even saw them put up something for Lent.

I thought that maybe this was purely a thing in hyper-Evangelical Trump worshiping land, but actually, even in Walmarts up here in "Godless" New England, they still have a display of Christian books in the middle of the aisle outside of electronics, and no sign of anything else.

My only experience with language like "Holiday Trees" has been in video games like Animal Crossing (where it's called Festive, which... I mean, Japanese game, so, I didn't think a thing of it) and The Sims. I've never heard it IRL. And "Happy Holidays" is a phrase that goes at least all of the way back to the classic Christmas songs of the early 20th century. When I first heard Happy Holidays, I didn't even think of it as being inclusive, so much as thinking it was just a term that encompassed Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's.

I'm not a Christian myself, either. I've never been offended by hearing the word "Christmas". I celebrate the holiday as the Winter Solstice. So many of the "Christmas" traditions seem more like winter solstice traditions than Christian. Take the bringing in and decorating of evergreen trees. That is clearly more of a "look, greenery and life in the winter!" than it is...whatever Christians try to make it out to be.

I really don't care if people say Christmas. I don't care at all. What I do take issue with is them taking so much offense with a nonbeliever like me celebrating it as the Winter Solstice. I'm a history nerd. I know that Christmas's date was chosen by the early fathers of Christianity not because it actually looked like it was the day of Jesus's birth, but because it was symbolic. Easter's date around Spring's beginning is also equally symbolic. I do believe that even some of the traditions are appropriated from old Pagan traditions regarding the Winter Solstice (whether or not they were actually appropriated, or former Pagan traditions got naturally mixed in, IDK)... So I can celebrate it as Winter Solstice and they can get over it. Lol. Jesus is not the reason for the season, axial tilt is. =D

Don't forget that someone disagreeing with you but still allowing you to speak freely is an attack on your freedom of speech.

I find the idea of Christians seeing themselves as persecuted in America to be rather comical. They have the most popular religion. They have the most popular holiday. They sell Bibles in the supermarkets. It seems like there's a tax-exempt church on every street corner. Major politicians constantly profess their faith in Christianity. But hey, have you heard the anecdote about the poor old Christian lady whose condo board asked her not to proselytize in the communal rec room? That's persecution! Soon all our Bibles will be contraband!

If Christans are persecuted in America, where does that leave the rest of us?

A couple times I watched Christian propaganda films for amusement. One took place in an American town with no Bibles or churches, where everyone is an atheist except our Christian protagonists, and nobody has ever even heard what Christians believe. And I'm like...where is this town and how do I move there?

Thankfully, I don't think all Christians buy into this stuff. But I did used to think that this quote by the OP --

-- applied to the persecution complex Christians. Since then, however, I have come to intensely dislike that quote. Not to single out the OP, it's a very popular quote. But as I mentioned in another thread, I feel like accusations of "privilege" are now used as an easy way to dismiss people's opinions out of hand. Not just the opinions of conservative Christians, but anybody. "You just think that because you're privileged and you don't want your privilege taken away" has become the secular version of "Y'all just want to sin" and the politicized version of "ur a hater. haters gonna hate."