Question for Christians

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This is kinda dumb but for some reason this popped into my head Was Judas punished by god for turning Jesus in, I'm wondering because it was part of god's plan and all...

Please don't turn this into a war I honestly don't know where else to ask me not being religious and all but still i'm just wondering.

Confusing as it may seem, the answer is that we don't know. It is not my place (or any other person's) to pretend to know God's actions or intentions. Judas obviously sinned, but I do not believe he was forced to do it, as that would violate free will. Judas also repented before his death. However, I am not God and so can never claim to know what He did with Judas or anyone else.

Just a couple of points:

I hate the whole Judas thing - also the Pontius Pilate thing since both seem a little trapped and unfairly maligned IMHO.

Reading the bible today shows us just how confusing the teachings of Jesus were. He didn't talk under duress (at all) and I think it's a bit much to assume that primitive societies were always about to translate the metaphors etc in his parables.

To use a couple of fictitious sources;

1. Jesus Christ Superstar - (bear with me)... It's established that the apostles have no clue as to what Jesus' real intentions are; Mary Magdelene is confused over the meaning of Love, Simon thinks that the whole point is War against the Romans and Judas thinks it's about helping the poor. There's a big argument where Jesus tells Judas that there "will be poor always" and that it's ok to have possessions (expensive oil for feet etc.). Judas also has problems with Jesus associating with a prostitute saying "it doesn't help us if you're inconsistent". My point being that it's believable that if Judas got the message wrong and thought that Jesus was "selling out" he might be tempted to turn him in for what he believes is the greater good - in JCS, the high priest finally tempts Judas with the silver pieces by telling him to "choose any charity, give to the poor. we've noted your motives, we've noted your feelings".


2. The Last Temptation of Christ - It's clear by the end of this film that Jesus and Judas are working towards the same end, and in partnership. I think that the Book of Judas (no longer part of the bible) actually says as much - though I could be wrong.

Should you be punished for doing what you think is "good"?

We had a thread about Judas a while back, it should be in the forum, it wasn't so long ago, about 6 weeks.

So far thanks tons guys I'm not really Christian religion wise but still I wonder sometime wonder about random crap but I'm quite thankful for your opinions

Here's that other thread about Judas for ya.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postx49886-15-0.html

Everything everyone does could be deemed part of God's plan. This does not make them not responsible to their actions.

A more explicit such problem can, IIRC, be found in the book of Exodus. When Moses approaches pharaoh, it quite plainly says a couple of times that "The Lord hardened pharaoh's heart", yet pharaoh would ultimately feel God's wrath.

well im shure the answer can be found in the book of daniel or isaiah dude or atleast thats what a christian will tell you. also god seems to be two sided, good and bad, turning men away from him and turning men tword him, hes nothing but an invisible bully in the sky with a temper

very good question btw

I'm not Christian but I'll give my opinion (My mom is catholic and oddly enough loves Judas--crazy hagiolater! lol).

Without Judas, the whole event would have never happened. Judas should be seen as the one who humanly spun the "salvation of mankind", with Jesus' death being the consummation. In that regard, Judas should be viewed as integral to the Lord's plan.

I don't really think so. If you're talking about the hanging, that was of his own free will.

Just to throw this out there, The Last Temptation is nowhere near an accurate portrayal of Christ, and even in the original novel, the author tries and disclaim it from being any kind of interpretation of the life and works of Christ. As for Jesus Christ Superstar, I haven't seen it, so I couldn't tell you much there, though Judas' motives were certainly not out of charity.

Pilate wanted nothing to do with it and called Jesus a righteous man, his wife had also had a dream.
Becuase the Jews themselves insisted on Jesus death, Pilate was able to publicly wash his hands to show he didnt have the blood of Jesus on them.

As for Judas, he had a liking for money which Satan was able to expoit, but I guess we all have a temptation that can be hard to resist, once Satan had finished using Judas weakness, Judas threw the money back and killed himself, surely a sign of repentance.

Though Judas would undoubtedly have lost his position as ruling as a King with Jesus in his kingdom, maybe he will still have the forgiveness of sins that Jesus blood bought for us, and be part of the ordinary ressurection of the good and the bad.
Having said that though:-

20 When, now, it had become evening, he was reclining at the table with the twelve disciples. 21 While they were eating, he said: “Truly I say to YOU, One of YOU will betray me.” 22 Being very much grieved at this, they commenced each and every one to say to him: “Lord, it is not I, is it?” 23 In reply he said: “He that dips his hand with me in the bowl is the one that will betray me. 24 True, the Son of man is going away, just as it is written concerning him, but woe to that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been finer for him if that man had not been born.” 25 By way of reply Judas, who was about to betray him, said: “It is not I, is it, Rabbi?”



Matthew 27 about Pilate

Pilate said to them: “Which one do YOU want me to release to YOU, Bar·ab´bas or Jesus the so-called Christ?” 18 For he was aware that out of envy they had handed him over. 19 Moreover, while he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent out to him, saying: “Have nothing to do with that righteous man, for I suffered a lot today in a dream because of him.” 20 But the chief priests and the older men persuaded the crowds to ask for Bar·ab´bas, but to have Jesus destroyed. 21 Now in responding the governor said to them: “Which of the two do YOU want me to release to YOU?” They said: “Bar·ab´bas.” 22 Pilate said to them: “What, then, shall I do with Jesus the so-called Christ?” They all said: “Let him be impaled!” 23 He said: “Why, what bad thing did he do?” Still they kept crying out all the more: “Let him be impaled!”

24 Seeing that it did no good but, rather, an uproar was arising, Pilate took water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying: “I am innocent of the blood of this [man]. YOU yourselves must see to it.” 25 At that all the people said in answer: “His blood come upon us and upon our children.”

if i remember correctly satan enterd him

Luke 22:3-6 (NIV)

3Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus. 5They were delighted and agreed to give him money. 6He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them when no crowd was present.

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so the events that led up to him hanging himself i wouldnt exactly call free will

I'm aware that it's fiction, but like all good fiction, the point is to raise new ideas.

Interestingly enough, I hadn't bothered to watch it until last year when my boss suggested that it was worth seeing (he's pretty Christian). I was expecting something really fictitious but I'd have to say that until the last 30 minutes of the film it's pretty close to gospel. (can I use that phrase here?).

I'm never swayed by biblical quotations because;
a. It was written a long time after the events
b. The disciples obviously never understood Jesus, so their statements won't be too accurate either.
c. The bible has been reinterpreted/translated by so many people that it's a long way from the original text.
d. There are large amounts of missing data (the book of Judas for example), which weren't removed for reasons of being lost, but rather were removed to deliberately reinforce a particular interpretation.
e. The bible is a bunch of statements which talk about fact rather than emotion. Most of the characters in it (including Jesus) aren't well rounded. We hear about what they do but not what they feel or think.

I could go on but this is probably long enough.
e.