Want extra credit? Burn the flag.
What are the political, national, and societal implications of an American University class offering extra credit to its students for setting fire to either the American Flag or the U.S. Constitution?
http://bangornews.com/news/t/news.aspx?articleid=156138&zoneid=500
On the first day of class, associate professor Paul Grosswiler offered the credit to members of his History of Mass Communications class, according to sophomore Rebekah McDade. Disturbed by the comment, McDade dropped the class and intends to take the course again next semester with a different professor.
"I was offended," McDade said Friday. "I come from a family of military men and women, and the flag and Constitution are really important symbols to me because of my family background."
In an e-mail responding to a request for comment from the Bangor Daily News on Friday, Grosswiler said he thought McDade misunderstood the class discussion, which was intended to elicit thought about the First Amendment. He said he has held this same discussion for years without incident.
"I don’t intend for students to burn either the Constitution or the flag, and over the years hundreds of students have understood that," Grosswiler wrote.
The incident was made public recently when The Leadership Institute, a Virginia-based nonprofit organization, distributed a press release detailing the classroom discussion.
The Leadership Institute was founded in 1979 by Morton Blackwell and has a mission to identify, recruit, train and place conservatives in politics, government and the media, according to the organization’s Web site.
A field representative for the institute met McDade on Oct. 1 at UM, when she shared her experience and expressed an interest in spearheading a group "Students for Academic Freedom," Blackwell said Friday.
The group’s initial goal would be to convince UM to enact a "Student Bill of Rights," as other colleges have, which would protect students from professors who treat and grade students differently based on religious or political beliefs, McDade said. The institute has assisted McDade in the startup process, she said.
"When we heard the story, we said ‘Hey, this is probably worthwhile our doing a news release,’" Blackwell said. "When you expose leftist abuses, it invigorates conservatives. I am sure that the administration, like most administrations we deal with, is not happy when leftist abuses come to life. They far prefer to have students under their thumb and indoctrinated."
McDade said Friday she was a little uncomfortable with the publicity and that it might have gotten out of hand. She said her intent was not to put the focus on Grosswiler, but to give students an opportunity to voice their concerns.
A journalism and political science double major, McDade said the first class of her fall semester at UM began with the typical syllabus introduction and class overview. Despite repeated "liberal" comments made by Grosswiler, McDade said, she was not uncomfortable in the classroom until the flag burning comment.
"Everyone is entitled to their own political beliefs, and more power to you if you are passionate about it," McDade said.
When Grosswiler listed the extra-credit opportunities, McDade said the class of approximately 50 students grew very quiet, and some questioned whether he was serious.
At first, student Kathleen Dame said she thought Grosswiler was joking, but then he went on to explain to the class that burning the flag was not illegal. While Grosswiler approached the topic in a serious manner, Dame said she felt he used it as a tool to educate the class on the First Amendment.
"It was pretty outlandish and [he was] trying to prove a point," Dame said Friday.
While McDade said she would not be surprised if students followed through with the flag burning, Dame disagreed.
UM spokesman Joe Carr said Friday that Grosswiler’s classroom comments were not intended to be taken literally and that extra credit would not be granted for carrying out such activities.
A second person in the class did submit a complaint about the lecture, but Carr did not know in what form it was filed.
When asked whether the university would pursue disciplinary action, Carr replied, "No."
He said Grosswiler has worked at the University of Maine since 1991, is one of the more veteran professors in the department of communication and journalism, and is a "well-respected member of the faculty."
In his e-mail Friday, Grosswiler, who is a former BDN employee, explained that he refers to provocative examples, such as flag burning, to demonstrate the courage necessary to support free expression.
"If they don’t tolerate thought that they hate, they don’t believe in the First Amendment," he wrote.
"I applaud the student’s exercise of free expression. If she had stayed in the class, I would have given her extra credit for publicizing her opinions."
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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.
It's outrageous!! The president can lie us into an undeclared war resulting in the deaths of thousands of Americans, at a cost of trillions of dollars, and he can stay in office. But if a professor suggests that the sacred symbol be defiled, he should be driven from office. Free speech, hrie-feech! Americans need to protect what is important - our symbol. Because a few thousand lives are nothing, and money was made for spending. But if we lose our symbols, we are doomed.
Maybe we should burn the fumes themselves -- the fumes of that "awful", "oppressive" American flag.
I think it's funny that far-left Americans are so annoyed with the very concept of America, that they can't even pretend patriotism anymore.
First, Obama officially declared that he would no longer wear the American flag pin, which is fine in itself -- but why make an announcement about it, as if it's by principle that he's decidedly not wearing it? Then, he refused to put his hand over his heart like everyone else during the singing of the National Anthem. I guess he's just ashamed of America? And this guy's running for president of the United States of America.
Brilliant, ya jerk.
Rule #1 for being an American president is that you have to tolerate the very idea of America. I know, I know, it hurts.
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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.
I think it's funny that far-left Americans are so annoyed with the very concept of America, that they can't even pretend patriotism anymore.
First, Obama officially declared he would no longer wear the American flag pin, which is fine in itself -- but why make an announcement about it, as if it's by principle that he's decidedly not wearing it. Then, he refused to put his hand over his heart like everyone else during the singing of the National Anthem. And this guy's running for president of the United States of America. Brilliant, dude.
Rule #1 for being an American president is that you have to tolerate the very idea of America.
I find it tragic that many conservatives are so in love with the idea and rituals of patriotism, yet have no regard for things like the Constitution or the truth. Searches without a warrant? Sure, violate the Constitution. We are at war (we just haven't bothered to get a Constitutionally required declaration of war). Mukasey is nominated for Attorney General, and he can't give an opinion as to whether waterboarding (which the US military has prosecuted as a war crime for a century) is illegal or not.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02005.html
I believe there are major differences between patriotism and nationalism. For example, patriotism includes acceptance of dissent whereas nationalism does not. I understand Obama's actions against wearing a flag pin etc. to be symbolic of his protest against nationalism not against patriotism.
Burn 'em. Symbolic things are for NTs. The proper way to dispose of a flag is to burn it anyway. That is why all of those flags get burned overseas. The disposal of them has been outsourced.
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I won?t tell anyone else how to be
You can be yourself, but just let me be me
I think it's funny that far-left Americans are so annoyed with the very concept of America, that they can't even pretend patriotism anymore.
First, Obama officially declared he would no longer wear the American flag pin, which is fine in itself -- but why make an announcement about it, as if it's by principle that he's decidedly not wearing it. Then, he refused to put his hand over his heart like everyone else during the singing of the National Anthem. And this guy's running for president of the United States of America. Brilliant, dude.
Rule #1 for being an American president is that you have to tolerate the very idea of America.
I find it tragic that many conservatives are so in love with the idea and rituals of patriotism, yet have no regard for things like the Constitution or the truth.
"Tragic" is what your warped mind is.
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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.
A nation's leader is expected to be at least a little nationalistic -- after all, he's the guy who has to actively promote his country the most.
No leader of any country says: "Ah, well, after all, we're just another country in the world... Who cares? Why compete with anyone else? Oh, hum..."
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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.
The_Chosen_One
Veteran
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,357
Location: Looking down on humanity
While these prats are burning their flags, which are only symbols as Raggedy Man puts it, they can throw on to the fire all of their bibles and religious tokens as well. A symbol is a symbol, and if your faith is so strong in your god, then you don't need any paraphernalia to endorse it.
I personally wouldn't burn our flag, not for the fact of patriotism, but because of respect to our country's forefathers. You can do what you like with yours.
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Pagans are people too, not just victims of a religious cleansing program. Universal harmony for all!!
Karma decides what must happen, and that includes everyone.
Ron Paul, Texas (R), Speaking in a Congressional debate on a proposed amendment to outlaw flag burning.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul99.html
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