"Let me see your ticket."

Post Reply New Topic

People ask for your ticket before letting you into a sporting event.

When you visit a theater people ask for your ticket before you can see a movie.

Before you are admitted into a concert people ask for your ticket.

Before you are allowed on a plane the airline attendant will ask for your ticket, or tickets if your traveling with someone.

Now let's change “ticket” to “paperwork”.

Before you enter the United States people ask to see your paperwork.

Are people who run sporting events, movie theaters, concerts and airlines discriminating if they ask for your ticket, or are they simply looking out for the welfare of their business? If they are not discriminating then how is this any different from what people in United States want to see? The citizens and shareholders of this business called The United States want to "see your tickets."

Last edited by kxmode on 19 May 2010, 3:29 pm, edited 7 times in total.

Pretty reasonable, if you ask me. Why change the rules when it comes to a country, especially when every other country has that rule?

Hmmm... I would hazard to guess that it would be a little thing like presumption of innocence, the foundations of which would be left barely standing if at all under what you suggest. The system you put forth, when taken to extreme and given the reactionary nature of the response it is not unreasonable to believe that such action would lean towards extremism, has been tried before with massive repercussions on the social structures of those nations. I do not believe repeating those mistakes is a wise decision, and does not represent the goals aspired to in this nation's founding.


M.

Makes sense.

So what is there to debate about....

I'm trying to illustrate a point that could be discussed in a patient problem solving way. I realize you know what I'm trying to convey but you're jumping 200 miles ahead of the topic. You're like that one kid in class that always tried to give answers before allowing the class time to analyze and figure things out on their own. I appreciate your comment but I don't think it's appropriate at this time.

Fair enough, as your opinion - as for myself, I perceive it differently. If there are rapids and waterfalls ahead, it does not make sense to divert my canoe at the last moment. Sometimes people become so enamored with an idea that they cannot see the potential repercussions again until it is too late. Yes, I was that student who was solving for the solution instead just 'the moment' now that you mention it. But that strategy has allowed me to prevent and solve more issues by far than any that manner of thought has created.


M.

Still would be easier if paperwork just turned into a simple piece of paper such as ticket you'd find in a wonka bar. Then you could go anywhere without having to be bugged about looking for your paper work. Be also great for the environment with less paper wasted off so many trees.

Well people do get asked for their papers at the border and have heard no objections to proper immigration procedure.

But if you are already in the theater (legally), and the usher comes by every 5 minutes during the movie, flashing his flashlight in your face asking to see your ticket, because you look a certain a way (say he targets only males), you might find it harassing and discriminatory.

And then maybe you drop the ticket in the dark, so they haul you out and call the cops because they don't believe you ever had one. -- Whereas the other 12 people who also wouldn't be able to produce their ticket on demand don't have to worry about that at all because they're all female (or whatever).

Good point. Except in all examples you're generally forced to go through a single point of entry. They don't check once you pass because 99% of the time most people already turned in their tickets. Back when Ellis Island was in full operation it was the single point of entry into New York. The Atlantic was a nice "border" between the US and Europe. So should walls be constructed in the south so that there's a better point of entry with accelerated immigration status akin to Ellis Island? I think there should be.

Maybe. I think it depends on the cost. And there's already fence and the border patrol. I guess I'd wonder how come that's not working.

Overall, I just have the feeling this issue may be being brought by various political factions funded by big banks to distract people from how unemployment and the crappy economy has more to do with Wall Street. Blaming immigrants during high unemployment is an historical political trick.

As far as single point of entry -- where I live the theaters tear the ticket and then hand it back to you. I presume they do that because they know that people will still somehow find alternative ways to get in. They could either spend money further tightening up security, or harass the customers with more checks. Both would negatively affect the business, so I think look for a compromise that leaves customers feeling minimally bothered, and keeps most of the sneaking-in people out. I think absolute answers to the problem are might be worse than the problem itself.

Probably already touched upon, but the issue is more complex.

"Papers please" at the border makes sense. Once in the nation, it is offensive.

However, what if people sneaking in illegally is a major problem? Then, it is more defensible as a practice.

Now, with any "business," "papers please" to enter makes sense, but if the business owner has a problem with people sneaking in (back door, unlocked side door), then to harass me because he won't secure other doors is offensive. If he secured other doors, he'd better have a good reason to want to see my papers (although, with movies, they usually want to make sure you are going to the right theater room).

just walking down the street minding my own business, i would be mightily offended if any official stopped me and demanded to see a passport, as i don't have one and will not obtain one for my own reasons. i refuse to carry any wallet or paperwork with me when i am just walking and minding my own business or working in my yard or such. part of the charm of being an amuuuurrrican is that this is not a "papers, please" type of country, at least for now. i hope it never becomes one, arizona notwithstanding. i mention arizona because i have been mistaken for latino in the past and i stand a good chance of being stopped and detained down there merely for looking vaguely like a latino with no "papers."

Even so. If an officer of the law asks you to identify yourself, you are legally required to give your true (legal) name verbally even if you have no "papers".

ruveyn

I think I am done discussing politics on this site. I have tried many times to use illustrations and logic to show why I feel illegal immigration is bad. But it is now clear to me most of you are completely unreasonable. I cannot reason with irrational people. It's a waste of time.

Before you get all huffy, consider the arguments you're making. Presumably, you want to discuss Arizona's recent anti-immigrant law, but your analogy is comparing a business practice with border customs, and checking passports and looking over customs declarations, which are the federal government's prerogative, are not very controversial. Arizona's new law is something else entirely.

Exactly.

Although the anti-immigration hysteria doesn't resonate with me, you may nevertheless have reasonable concerns about uncontrolled immigration. Whatever those concerns might be, I believe Arizona's new law is a wrongheaded approach. It tramples over our civil rights and treats people of Hispanic descent or those who speak Spanish as second-class citizens (let's face it: They're not going to pick out the white guy as a suspected illegal immigrant), so I'd say it probably fails the Equal Protection Clause among probably other Constitutional violations. To me, it is very important that we live in a country where people are free from unwarranted harassment from law enforcement, discriminatory enforcement of the law, etc. I don't care that it wouldn't personally affect me; it still bugs me.

Actually, the museums in Washington, D.C. are great. They are all free, and no need for a ticket. You just walk right in (although these days a guard will look inside your bag as you enter).

They even show movies for free.

The National Zoo is free--just walk in.

That's the way the world ought to be.