Gay sex;My View

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Those who think gay sex is an abomination.. I thought I should write this after watching selebs most embarrassing moments, where a rapper, Shabba or someone, mentioned the bible and almost condoned persecuting and killing of gay people.

For this discussion I will make the assumption that the teaching of the Bible is the truth of the universe. Through all cultures there is one constant. The act of sex is considered sacred. It is unlike sharing food, handshake or the giving of money. It is simple; it is the process that brings a child into this world. This goes a long way to explain why most cultures believe that sex should be conducted in the sanctity of marriage.

I am sure that we can all agree,at least in the bygone era that, a nation of illegitimate children is weak and one built up upon marriage is strong. Sex with two consenting men do not result in illegitimate children. However, it is obviously sex outside of marriage because two men cannot be married. Most religions don’t except gay sex because of the negative example it shows to heterosexual and the possible spreading of sexual transmitted diseases, without any significant gain

If one could accept gay sex had negative influence on western society as for as sexual pursuit, people like Sabba cannot. How can he except one form of fornication over another. Especially when it is heterosexual sex that leads to illegitimate children, child poverty and abortion.

I remember someone saying that homosexuality can spread and kill off the human population. That is impossible by the laws of evolution. Most anti gays people belief that gayness goes against the laws of evolution, have limited understanding or willing to understand it.]

My take has always been... I've nothing against gay people I'm just not one (well, I'm fairly sure I'm not one) and I have no intention of trying to find out now 'cos I'm married with Kids and that wouldn't be good for the marriage.

Otherwise - does it really matter?

One thing though... I've often thought that gay people seem to change their partners more often (are more promiscuous) - does that sound right or is it just crap. Do I even have any right to use a word like promiscuous in today's permissive society... probably not.

If a large majority people have negative* views, there must be a evolutionary reason why this is.
If my conclusions pointed me views come to the conclusion that accepting homosexuality is negative for society, I would let you know.

The reality is persecution of gays is like the persuasion of a shepherd after the horse has bolted.

Not necessarily. Beliefs and genes can come and go randomly - in evolution, this is called genetic drift. If the Romans believed A and B, and they made the best weapons and conquered the world, then A and B became popular beliefs. It has nothing to do with whether A and B are true, or whether A and B were evolutionarily advantageous. A and B were hitching a ride on Rome's military industrial complex.



Thanks. You know where to find us.

Chav, do you really care if the world accepts homosexuality? Are there not enough people, right now on this planet, to keep it populated, if homosexuality was fashioned considerable?

Not to go off on a troll tangeant, but, did you meet the person who wrote the Bible? Did he seem like a good man? Did he ever tell you about how he changed it's verses to fit his needs? Did he tell you about how many cultures he's destroyed because he needed his word to be higher than any other?

I am gay, and I like it. I was raised very strict roman catholic, and it was hard to accept, being born different. I used to wake up daily thinking that if I prayed enough the night before, that 'he' would change me in my sleep. I would wake up mildly depressed the next day, but, oh well. Don't you actually believe that everyone should have the power to make their own decisions about happiness? Why couldn't I live the rest of my life without one man?

My views on the subject are undergoing changes in attitude, ever since the "AWOL" part of my mind returned to active duty! (Brahmin-Kshatrya inside joke )

As a Brahmin, I recall Chiranjiva relating the Knowledge that everyone has homosexual tendencies.

If you remember when you were young, you felt a natural preference for same-sex relationships. Only, generally speaking, when you came into the 12 to 18 age range did you begin to feel attracted to the opposite sex.

Having grown up "church Christian", and having studied what scholars have said about how the Christian religion came to be, and with my aspie mind now fully functioning for the first time in 63 years, I came to realize how a Knowledge-based spiritual group had been subverted into a Religion, with it's alien, Greek Pagan theology.

Naturally, when a superstitious humanity is led by an institution that was subverted by ex-government bureaucrats into a religion (Saul, who changed his name to Paul and started spreading dissent amongst the christians only two years after Isha (as he's known in Isha Upanishad) disappeared, and let's not forget the Politician named Constantine), the religion (from a Greek root meaning "to bind") would naturally use the ignorance of the masses against them, and incite hatred! "In the name of God" against people because of Old Testament Mosaic Law, when it was clearly in contradiction with New Testament teachings!

Government types aren't going to give up any tool of Ignorance with which to divide humanity against itself (self-destructive lot, aren't they?).

The attitudes in America today are the result of the sexual contradiction of the puritanical protestants, whose continuing protest divided the humanity more and more, resulting in todays ignorant attitudes, based on superstition and fear, not Knowledge.

That's why I fell in love with Chiranjiva's more ancient understanding of the subject, and he wasn't afraid to be quite frank with his revelations, "What Moses taught you? Worship your phallus! ... and create a world of fallacy...".

I've heard that India, since ancient times has had "Gay Castes" (it's important to remember that the real meaning of Caste was corrupted through Time), and that Gays were an integral, normal part of the social order.

Straight men, single and married, had relations with both sexes in those times, but they were not a tribal society living on sparse deserts, but in a flourishing and reasonably spiritual and stable village and city-oriented society, in a generally more friendly environment. I understand that the Kama Sutra covers a lot of ground on this topic from this much older viewpoint.

Everyone thinks everyone else is defective, and everyone wants somebody else to change, but in the Immortal words of my brother Brahmin and Limelighter, the late Lou Gottlieb:

"In this world there is no one you can change but yourself,"
"so I've stopped trying to change you and I'm working on myself."
"So I can have the Self Respect that you require, that's my desire,"
"you know that's my desire..."
... ...
"So I can have the Self Respect that you Inspire,
"That's my desire, God knows that's my desire."

Your Obedient Brahmin,

Ever heard of a civil union?

Anyway...just thought i'd add that I have nothing at all against gay sex. I think people should have the freedom to do whatever they want sexually, as long as it hurts no body else.

Genetic drifts, as you call them, are mare mutations. Homosexuality my have started off as a mutation. But now that the population, at large benefits from having homosexual people, nature creates them for a purpose. Same goes ,unfortunately, for those who also hate gay people too.

I don't think nature created gay people as a form of population control. Gay people have characteristics that benefit the population. Many gay people make a good caring leader type. Jobs like Bishops are ideal for gay people. In most forms of Christianity, a Bishop or religious leader is expected to remain celibate. The problem with Heterosexual Bishops is as soon as the starts a family, is his time and love he has for his family compromises that of the people in his community, some bishops might be highly tempted to steal from church to support his family.

With a homosexual person there is little risk that he will start up a family and there is less evidence of fornication because the act of homosexuality cannot produce illegitimate children and give a bad example to the church.

This explain why there are so many gay bishops in the . It might also explain why gay hate is more rife then it should be. Any public acceptance of fornication by a leader ,such as a bishop, would give a bad example.

One of the main reasons for hatred toward Gays is simply this:

People are insecure with their own sexuality, and the fact that all normal humans have latent homosexual tendencies, which they feel, but are in contradiction about. We have these feelings of attraction deep down, it's part of what makes us sociable.

It's part of why men have "Good Buddy's", but the "red-neck" doesn't understand these things, and cannot, therefore, consciously acknowledge them.

Adolescent boys are going through more contradiction today over their bodies than when I was young, due to fear that "they might be Gay", when it's nothing more than natural human feelings, which they have been taught are "wrong", despite the fact these feelings are part of what "Christians" or other "religions" call "Intelligent Design", and if God created man, he created everyone with these same innate feelings, for social purposes, without which society would not function very well.

Some other cultures, older ones, mostly Asian I IIRC, still have somewhat more civilized attitudes towards Gays.

As Time became a liar and Knowledge was lost, humanity got more and more in contradiction of their own human forms, freaking out over what is natural, due to being kept in ignorance, by their own religious and political institutions, of the simplest facts of life.

There are different attitudes recorded, but I don't remember reading anything about asian cultures. I recall reading that Tacitus mentioned that the native Brits put to death homosexuals. The Romans themselves, whilst accepting homosexuality, had social conventions regarding the submissive and dominant role (to put it politely) in so far as men of social standing weren't expected to take the former role. It seems that many societies, even outside the influence of modern religion, have seen homosexual relationships as inferior to heterosexual ones. Some, it seems, viewed them as completely unacceptable. However, I also recall that certain indigenous people of South America, isolated from western religion and culture, do see man on man sex acceptable even within the context of those men being also involved in heterosexual relationships.

it depends whether they reached those negative views on their own, or through social conditioning.

there is certainly a political reason for the persecution of minority groups - divide and rule. Introducing discriminatory practices and scapegoats into the collective mindscape of the population makes it easier for the few to command the many.

I dont think this directly has much to do with darwinian evolution, its more a question of whether our species chooses to adopt or hold onto a 'hive' structure of centralised control or move towards an alternative where individual freedom is more widely tolerated. Insect/hive type behaviourial traits such as emotional coldness, domination and a disregard for individuality are associated with the older 'reptilian' part of the brain, as opposed to the more advanced mammalian brain (which evolved later)

So... if anything i think youve got it the wrong way round - homophobia in society, rather than being a product of natural selection should be considered more of an expression of an evolutionary remnant (like the appendix or third eyelid) or non-evolutionary abberation, that is set to disapeer if we continue to evolve along the same path, away from our 'primitive' roots.

Simple but not logical. If it was the case, it would not hold true with everyone. Your question leaves incomplete; if gay hate is so common there must be an evolutionary benefit to the collective.

So you do admit that homophobia did have an evolutionary advantage to society in past. Now I think about it you are probably right.

In a nutshell In past all acts of fornication was an abomination. But now, hetrosexuals relex their laws so the can have more fun, but still keep their own laws concerning gay sex.

Our insecurity leads us to fear.

I don't agree that there is any benefit to hate, period. It's self-destructive, and involutionary, not evolutionary.

Hate is oppression. Oppression was mistaken by the world of avidya (Ignorance, literally "not knowledge") for being power. But, oppression is the absence of power. To remove hate and suffering, to remove oppression, this is power.

Evolution, mother nature created hate. If hate went against the laws of evolution there would be no hate. If you look at the animal kingdom, animals hate too.