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Which church do you prefer and why?
Protestant ; the people 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Protestant; the music and atmosphere etc 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Protestant; the teachings and policy 32%  32%  [ 6 ]
Catholic; the people 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Catholic; the music and atmosphere etc 21%  21%  [ 4 ]
Catholic; the teachings and policy 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Other Christian 16%  16%  [ 3 ]
Other Reasons; please explain in thread, thank you!! 21%  21%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 19

ouinon
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24 Jan 2008, 1:46 pm

:afro: :flower: Decided to believe in god again because realise i am probably amongst those whose compulsion to analyse, theorise, assign agency, attribute cause etc etc, ( along with some other factor(s) non-identified for the moment!!) makes me need belief in god as an "efficient first cause", (Thomas Aquinas apparently), so that "the unknown" stops being enemy territory to me, and so that am not in permanent fight or flight mode as a result of not being able to satisfactorily attribute agency and cause to everything i encounter.

Even feel tentatively like going to church on the strength of it, to hang out with other people with this disability/dysfunction. :)

So the question is, which one? There isn't much choice here in village, catholic or protestant. And nothing else in nearest town either. So if i want to hang out with cognitively similar people, :lol: :) :D then it has to be one or the other for the moment, but i welcome descriptions of and testimonies for all churches. Thank you very much.

I would be interested to hear WHY people chose a certain one over another. "Got" the belief in god, but how DO people choose a church? Is it accident, who you know, where you live, which one your parents belonged to, the architecture, the medieval monk-detective series you saw on TV? ! :) How much did you know about your church before you chose it? etc etc. :?:

8)



Last edited by ouinon on 27 Jan 2008, 11:39 am, edited 15 times in total.

monty
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24 Jan 2008, 2:46 pm

Well, first question: why limit it to Christian religions? You said that you live in a small village, but should that limit your choices?

Personally, I generally prefer protestant Christianity to Roman Catholicism because I have problems with authority - the idea that salvation can only be obtained through the church hierarchy doesn't sit well with my reasoning. Especially when there is so much misbehavior among the hierarchy.

While the Catholic church is monolithic and it is take it or leave it, the various Protestant groups can be very different and are more of a smorgasbord - there are some Protestant groups that are farther from my beliefs than the Catholics (literalist/fundamentalist groups).



ouinon
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24 Jan 2008, 2:56 pm

Going to look out "monotheistic" religions for comparisons. Thank you for remarks, monty.
It's true there is this distinct bit about christianity compared to other monotheisms which i see absolutely no reason at the moment to believe in; that is that jesus christ was something more than human prophet.
Funny how it becomes almost invisible. But actually what IS all that about?
Why DO some people believe that Jesus was more than a human, etc? What does it achieve? ( Life after death and all our sins forgiven.)

8)



matrix
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25 Jan 2008, 11:34 am

ouinon wrote:
Going to look out "monotheistic" religions for comparisons. Thank you for remarks, monty.
It's true there is this distinct bit about christianity compared to other monotheisms which i see absolutely no reason at the moment to believe in; that is that jesus christ was something more than human prophet.
Funny how it becomes almost invisible. But actually what IS all that about?
Why DO some people believe that Jesus was more than a human, etc? What does it achieve? ( Life after death and all our sins forgiven.)

8)


Jesus was also a rabbi who trained "the least of these". By doing that he fulfilled the concept of everybody learning from God in the flesh, among everybody. Coming straight out of rabbinic school at 12 everyone came to hear him speak. Years later, at 30, he was able to make his disciples. He did perfectly to transition the thoughts of legalistic Jews. This was brought to light after reading Rob Bell's Velvet Elvis.


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ouinon
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25 Jan 2008, 1:48 pm

I have been thinking that one big problem perhaps about certain/all? monotheistic religions is the assumption/attitude that they are necessarily for everybody. That religion is forcibly for everyone, as if god is an objective reality relevant to all humans.

i think that it's certainly difficult to avoid believing that, but it may be essential to.

To the totally NT father of my son there is absolutely no need to believe in god. So he says. For me to presume that belief in god would improve his life, that he would be happier for a belief in god, would be religious intolerance in mild and miniature form.

So all the religions which claim to be universal, to represent a god for everyone, seem to me in some way suspect. Arrogant.

I don't know how long i will be able to carry on believing in god without requiring that everyone else agree with me!! It's difficult, because it requires that i remind myself constantly that i am believing in god because of a cognitive "dysfunction"/particularity which "belief in god" helps me with. Not everybody has this condition!! I have to remember that i am "in difficulty", which is precisely why i am doing this. ( jury still out on results; too soon to say; but has some effect) If I was not i suppose i would not bother.

Which monotheistic religions do not believe that they are for everyone, but for a certain group only? A group that needs this. :?:

8)



ouinon
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25 Jan 2008, 2:44 pm

so far only been able to think of the jewish religion/judaism.

Does anyone know of any other monotheism which does NOT automatically believe itself to be inherently and inevitably relevant to all humans? :?:

Was it in fact christianity which initiated this attitude? A religion spreadable like butter. Over everybody. Who was it who first specified this about christianity, that it was a religion for everybody? NOT just that was not a religion limited to the jewish people, which is something else, simply suggesting a recognition that there might be people with the need for this god other than the jewish people. I mean who was first person to suggest that a certain religion was for all humans irrespective of everything. A one size fits all god.

8)



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25 Jan 2008, 6:23 pm

ouinon wrote:
so far only been able to think of the jewish religion/judaism.

Does anyone know of any other monotheism which does NOT automatically believe itself to be inherently and inevitably relevant to all humans? :?:

Was it in fact christianity which initiated this attitude? A religion spreadable like butter. Over everybody. Who was it who first specified this about christianity, that it was a religion for everybody? NOT just that was not a religion limited to the jewish people, which is something else, simply suggesting a recognition that there might be people with the need for this god other than the jewish people. I mean who was first person to suggest that a certain religion was for all humans irrespective of everything. A one size fits all god.

8)

Jews have in the past attempted to spread their religion, but they never did so nearly as extensively as did religions such as Christianity or Islam, both of which place great emphasis on a goal that someday everyone should follow that religion. All religions have had missionaries of some type in their history, but that tradition has only been preserved in a very noticeable fashion within Christianity and Islam. Hindus used to travel abroad as missionaries, but in modern times Hinduism is seen more as a religion solely for those born into it. They no longer feel a need to spread their faith. The reason for trying to spread one's religion is that (presumably) one believes their own religion to be true, and missionaries see themselves as helping to bring others to the truth.


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matrix
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25 Jan 2008, 7:31 pm

ouinon wrote:
so far only been able to think of the jewish religion/judaism.

Does anyone know of any other monotheism which does NOT automatically believe itself to be inherently and inevitably relevant to all humans? :?:

Was it in fact christianity which initiated this attitude? A religion spreadable like butter. Over everybody. Who was it who first specified this about christianity, that it was a religion for everybody? NOT just that was not a religion limited to the jewish people, which is something else, simply suggesting a recognition that there might be people with the need for this god other than the jewish people. I mean who was first person to suggest that a certain religion was for all humans irrespective of everything. A one size fits all god.

8)

The amish don't do too much outreach, but probably for reasons too obvious.


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Feral-sapien
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26 Jan 2008, 7:22 am

ouinon wrote:
Going to look out "monotheistic" religions for comparisons. Thank you for remarks, monty.
It's true there is this distinct bit about christianity compared to other monotheisms which i see absolutely no reason at the moment to believe in; that is that jesus christ was something more than human prophet.
Funny how it becomes almost invisible. But actually what IS all that about?
Why DO some people believe that Jesus was more than a human, etc? What does it achieve? ( Life after death and all our sins forgiven.)

8)




The historical general concensus on that was decided around 300ad.Under the roman emperor Constantine...It was called the Nicene creed.

Also...As far as monotheism itself is concerned..It too at one time was a newly conceived idea...Previous to that the god/s were both evil and good...



ouinon
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26 Jan 2008, 8:43 am

Feral-sapien wrote:
The historical general concensus on that was decided around 300ad.Under the roman emperor Constantine...It was called the Nicene creed.

Is that when they decided that everyone needs religion? So that it became almost impossible to believe in god/belong to a church without believing that everybody else has to too, or that those who don't are ignorant/blind/asleep/deceived/wrong/actively ill intentioned/evil.

:?:



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26 Jan 2008, 9:08 am

ouinon wrote:
Feral-sapien wrote:
The historical general concensus on that was decided around 300ad.Under the roman emperor Constantine...It was called the Nicene creed.

Is that when they decided that everyone needs religion? So that it became almost impossible to believe in god/belong to a church without believing that everybody else has to too, or that those who don't are ignorant/blind/asleep/deceived/wrong/actively ill intentioned/evil.

:?:


That's good question....When did that start?..Was it christianity,or was it an even earlier concept?

Personally i think ignorance runs deeper inside of the wall of religion..Even though as a child i was instructed to believe otherwise.(All one has to do is check the facts for themselves.)



ouinon
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26 Jan 2008, 1:22 pm

I'm getting, at my usual snails pace, that there is a serious difference between believing in god and being a christian. I had noticed this before but not as "immediately". Perhaps because i hadn't been so convinced of the good reasons for me to believe in god before.

It seems to me as if christianity is for someone else, a totally different kind of person, involving a major change of attitude. But what exactly? Which people is christianity for? Everybody, supposedly. 8O :? NTs might love a religion for everybody. :? I don't. :) :lol:

Why did sacrifice get so "big"? I know that the strange "out of body" moment that i had 15 years ago led to my believing that "because my body loved me, would do anything for "me", i must love it back". I promptly set about serving it, my body, this personal flesh and blood incarnation/embodiment of the unknowable gene.

Is that what christians feel about jesus?

i don't think that my conception of the relationship with my body was necessarily a healthy one. I think it was based on a feeling of terrible obligation/debt, and shame and guilt, ( at how i had treated it, and what i owed it in return).

I don't think that christianity is a healthy concept for me, and perhaps not for some other people either. I think in certain people it leads to Big Brother in the head. Authoritarianism. Totalitarianism. Fascism.

:?:



Last edited by ouinon on 26 Jan 2008, 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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26 Jan 2008, 1:45 pm

Well first of all, there are other monotheistic religions besides Christianity (Judaism, Islam, Sikhism). Try out different services and see which ones you like best. Most places will let you show up and observe what happens there. Good luck. :)



ouinon
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26 Jan 2008, 2:18 pm

Delirium wrote:
Well first of all, there are other monotheistic religions besides Christianity (Judaism, Islam, Sikhism). Try out different services and see which ones you like best. Most places will let you show up and observe what happens there. Good luck. :)

Thank you. I will. Though i will have to go to nearest town to do so. But at least I'll be able to use the saturday bus service! :lol:

8)



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26 Jan 2008, 7:55 pm

ouinon wrote:
I'm getting, at my usual snails pace, that there is a serious difference between believing in god and being a christian. I had noticed this before but not as "immediately". Perhaps because i hadn't been so convinced of the good reasons for me to believe in god before.

It seems to me as if christianity is for someone else, a totally different kind of person, involving a major change of attitude. But what exactly? Which people is christianity for? Everybody, supposedly. 8O :? NTs might love a religion for everybody. :? I don't. :) :lol:

Why did sacrifice get so "big"? I know that the strange "out of body" moment that i had 15 years ago led to my believing that "because my body loved me, would do anything for "me", i must love it back". I promptly set about serving it, my body, this personal flesh and blood incarnation/embodiment of the unknowable gene.

Is that what christians feel about jesus?

i don't think that my conception of the relationship with my body was necessarily a healthy one. I think it was based on a feeling of terrible obligation/debt, and shame and guilt, ( at how i had treated it, and what i owed it in return).

I don't think that christianity is a healthy concept for me, and perhaps not for some other people either. I think in certain people it leads to Big Brother in the head. Authoritarianism. Totalitarianism. Fascism.

:?:



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"It is hard to fight an enemy who has outposts in your head."~Sally Kempton


My personal belief is that when they killed the man they also buried the message.(altered it to fit pagan ideals?)

I also have also tracked the statement "all men are born of sin" back through history and found that the first god was called Thoth.The second city that began just south of it had the same god(the moon),but they called it Sin(Now that's some serious irony.)....Immediately i realized the idea that perhaps christian lineage traces back to this point.

I don't mean to add confusion...Really i don't...I just hate to see someone so near the bigger idea waste time with more of the smaller ones.