Page 1 of 1 [ 5 posts ] 

tbam
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 120

06 Mar 2008, 6:07 pm

I was reading something the other day regarding Time and had a bit of an epiphany.

One of the great questions is: How do we know that time is moving forward, that we are not moving backwards in time but experiencing it in reverse? That cause and effect is reversed to create another cause and effect.

I wrote it all down, but can't remember all of it at the moment, so I will get to the crux of my epiphany.

It is often said that the procession of time appears to proceed from order to chaos. In that, you have something that is ordered and effected and is then changed, and this cannot be reversed.

For example:
You have a glass in your hand, and you drop it. You know from experience of previous cause and effect that it will break upon hitting the ground.
The glass' natural state is one of order, of being a coherant item. Once it is dropped, it is effected by the impact and is shattered, and it cannot be put back together to be in the same state it was previously, a state of chaos.

The glass' natural state is not in its chaotic state. If time were reversed as well as our perception of it. The Glass' natural state would be in pieces, however there is no cause or event that could occur to lift the glass into your hand and have the atoms of glass fuse together into its future state. Furthermore, it would mean that the state of chaos of the glass being broken had a determined future of being whole, of being a whole glass.

If time was reversed, then our universe would be pre-determined. Furthermore, effect would cease to exist and the universe would function as a set of random elements, proceeding to order without any cause.

I hope i'm not being too confusing, as I have forgotten some of what I wrote down.

But, what i'm getting at is that in a deterministic universe, time could be flowing either way and our perception of it just being in line with its flow.

However, in a universe where randomness or spontenaity exists in its truest forms, time can only be flowing one way. From order to chaos, the way in which we currently observe it.

Any thoughts?



Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

06 Mar 2008, 8:20 pm

Well, the issue is that without causality we have no notion of direction in time anyway, so forward and backwards become meaningless concepts and the entire time stream could almost be conceptualized as one moment or a single event comprised of differing times... at least to a viewer outside our own time.



iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

06 Mar 2008, 9:01 pm

The glass could still be remelted and formed to its former state.

delta S(universe) >= 0

delta S(system) can be less than 0 so long as delta S(universe) increases to counter it.

For the glass to regain order it would need to melt, but that would affect the environment by heating the air molecules.

Also you have stages here too:

Sand, melt, glass, break, melt, glass, etc. So it is not just in one direction.



Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 99
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

06 Mar 2008, 11:29 pm

Time does not move. Our perceptions do. What makes our perceptions move and why we see it as moving is a question I have put to various scientific sites and there seems to be no answers.



Confused-Fish
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 946
Location: trapped in a jar

07 Mar 2008, 2:29 am

time as in past behind you, future in front doesn't actually exist, its just a way that people record, perceive, sequence, and organise events. that's the official definition of time btw.

i suggest researching subjects like quantum mechanics if you want to learn more.