Clinton and King Solomon

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Remember the story about King Solomon and the two women each claiming that the same baby is her own. King Solomon proposed to solve the problem by cutting the living baby in half. The first woman said she would rather the baby be given to her rival than be killed. The second woman said if she couldn't have the baby she would rather the baby be killed so neither one could have him. King Solomon gave the baby to the first woman because her selflessness proved that she was the true mother.

It is my opinion that Hillary Clinton is like the second woman. She would rather see the Democratic party, her baby, destroyed than someone else win the nomination. She has allowed her divisive ambition to totally eclipse the common good.

I think Hillary would rather see McCain get in than Obama. Obama might do some investigations that might shed light on corruption that Hillary would rahter keep hidden.

I think, regardless who wins the nomination, the Democrats will have to put the other one in for vice president to avoid alienating their die-hard supporters. So either Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton is going to be the Democratic ticket. So we will have the first black and the first woman in those two offices (there's no chance McCain could beat that ticket) it's just a matter of which order they're in. Perhaps, after the first of them completes two terms, the other will have a good shot at being the next president? Though that's more likely if Obama is VP, since he's so much younger and would benefit from a public perception of more experience.

The Clinton/Obama ticket is not going to happen because the only way Clinton can win the nomination at this point is to convince the superdelegates that Obama isn't even a viable candidate. To then turn around and make him VP would look completely ridiculous not to mention at that point I don't think Obama would take it.

The Obama/Clinton ticket probably won't happen because Obama doesn't really need Clinton specifically. He might do well with a woman as VP, but not necessarily Clinton. Plus most of Clinton's constituency are die hard Democrats. I can't see them, when push comes to shove, actually deliberately allowing there to be another Republican president.

Bill Clinton has made public statements advocating a Hillary/Obama ticket, and there are Obama fanatics who would not accept a Hillary nomination without some kind of consolation, especially given that she will be behind in pledged delegates and in the popular vote against him. I think Obama would take it- he's only making statements spurning the vice presidency now because he wants the top job- but I'm sure he would be willing to settle for VP. It would better position him for a later presidential run than staying in the Senate, as it would look like he moved to a higher position and gained experience rather than simply losing and biding his time until the next election.

Obama/Clinton does seem less likely- Hillary would need Obama more than Obama would need Hillary, but it's still a distinct possibility. Nominating Obama will bring accusations of no experience, and since the public perception is that Hillary has more experience, this would balance the ticket. Besides, they're the two best-known Democrats right now. Who would be Obama's running-mate- Kucinich?

I think you all are missing another factor...

this is America... I don't belive we'd see such a radical change in our leadership that would allow both a Black candidate AND a Woman candidate to be leading any particular party of the big two.. that is.

Personally, I am happy to vote for a woman or 'other than caucasion' president and vice president, but you really have to look at the entrenched notions of a huge number of Americans (and I'm not just talking about Southerners)... it's hard for some people to believe a woman could make a good or even great president.
There are still some people in America who could not stand to have a Black man as president of this country, nor a Hispanic, Asian, Jewish, Gay, etc.

I believe that when we see a change in the 'White and Male Only' presidential face, it will be one thing at a time... probably a Woman first and white at that. I also suspect we wouldn't see a non-White president until we've seen a non-White vice president first.

We're talking about a long history of entrenched ideas here.

I, by the way, resemble a white male (and I'm not particularly angry at the moment either )

wsmac: America is more willing to accept non-white candidates than most people think- indeed, the vast majority of people you ask think that the country as a whole would be less accepting than them personally. Basically, we're not as racist or as sexist as we think we are. I know a handful of racists (I'm in SW Ohio- Copperhead territory) but not enough to be significant, and those people wouldn't vote for a Democrat anyways.

I don't care about the concentration of melanin or whether they're male or female, internals matter infinitely more than external nonchangables.

I understand your point, but the fact of the matter is the voter doesn't have to be racist or even discriminating based upon sex.

When you take into account the reasons people vote the way they do, I suspect my theory would be more correct this time around.

I have personally heard from voting adults as well as having seen quotes over time stating that some people vote the way they do, not because they believe in the candidate, but because of several other reasons:
- to 'vote' someone out of office
- to keep the other candidates out of office
- because it's the party line
- religious convictions
etc.

One does not have to have anything against Blacks or Woman or even Democrats, to vote against an Obama/Clinton ticket.

I really don't believe we'll see a successful non-white and female Pres/VP ticket any time in the next couple of elections.
Can't really tell about three elections from now.
I have to say that we are progressing in that direction though.
People were crying for various black and female candidates over the last several elections, but this is the only time we've really seen a viable candidate from either group.

Maybe after the next president finishes his office run, we'll then see a woman president.

I vote my conscience. I do not vote because I think I have to in order to keep someone in particular out of office.
I have been accused of 'throwing my vote away' because I voted for a candidate who had little chance of succeeding.
I voted for this candidate because I believed in them taking office.

Anyway.. getting off topic... sorry.

Personally, I would like to see Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius or Joe Biden as Obama's VP. I think the public will demand a VP with more experience than a VP with name recognition.

[quote="spdjeanne"][quote="Orwell"]I

The Clinton/Obama ticket is not going to happen because the only way Clinton can win the nomination at this point is to convince the superdelegates that Obama isn't even a viable candidate. To then turn around and make him VP would look completely ridiculous not to mention at that point I don't think Obama would take it.

The Obama/Clinton ticket probably won't happen because Obama doesn't really need Clinton specifically. He might do well with a woman as VP, but not necessarily Clinton. Plus most of Clinton's constituency are die hard Democrats. I can't see them, when push comes to shove, actually deliberately allowing there to be another Republican president.[/quote]

I don't think Obama would be too comfortable knowing that Hillary and Bill would be a heartbeat away from the office. It is not beyond possibility that the Clintons would kill to get the office. Bill would have what amounts to a third term and Hillary would be Queen of America. I would be very uncomfortable with that pair at my back. When I see Hillary, I think of Lady Macbeth.

Remember Vince Foster. I have not forgotten.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I clicked on this thread imagining that it was going to be about sex (King Solomon and his 700 wives and 300 concubines, having something to do with one or the other Clinton).

not quite.

Maybe peacocks and apes, then? King Solomon was a rather silly king. He had 700 wives and 300 concubines, plus a menagerie of peacocks and apes.