Page 1 of 2 [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Are you in favour of indendence for Scotland?
Yes 87%  87%  [ 20 ]
No 13%  13%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 23

burnse22
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 383

13 May 2008, 8:09 pm

Just wondering what people think about Scottish Independence, especially in the wake of Wendy Alexander's latest u-turn.
I thinks it's increasing likely that Scotland will go down that route.

(I'm not really expecting a lot of responses, by the way, I do realise that this forum is dominated by Americans.)



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

13 May 2008, 8:41 pm

My family is Scottish, so I identify somewhat. I even considered attending uni in Scotland, but that ended up not being financially viable. Anyways, I support Scottish independence if the people of Scotland want it. I doubt they'll be able to get it, and anyways the whole UK is gradually being dragged deeper and deeper into the EU, so Scottish independence from England would probably just be replaced by subservience to the EU.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


burnse22
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 383

13 May 2008, 8:59 pm

Orwell wrote:
My family is Scottish, so I identify somewhat. I even considered attending uni in Scotland, but that ended up not being financially viable. Anyways, I support Scottish independence if the people of Scotland want it. I doubt they'll be able to get it, and anyways the whole UK is gradually being dragged deeper and deeper into the EU, so Scottish independence from England would probably just be replaced by subservience to the EU.


I not so sure. The way things are going now the SNP (Scottish National Party, the ones in favour of independence) are being seen an effective government, with Scottish Labour becoming more and more discredited. If a referendum was held now it would probably be very close.
Also, if Scotland were to become independent, it would be under the SNP's watch, and they would not want to be subservient to EU.

Sorry, you couldn't come to uni here. The universities over here are pretty good.



Last edited by burnse22 on 13 May 2008, 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cyanide
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,003
Location: The Pacific Northwest

13 May 2008, 9:03 pm

Orwell wrote:
Anyways, I support Scottish independence if the people of Scotland want it.


Same.



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

13 May 2008, 9:10 pm

burnse22 wrote:
I not so sure. The way things are going now the SNP (Scottish National Party, the ones in favour of independence) are being seen an effective government, with Scottish Labour becoming more and more discredited. If a referendum was held now it would probably be very close.

Well, didn't English Labour just get pounded in the local elections? The new mayor of London is a Tory... Also, public will oftentimes can be difficult to translate into something as drastic as creating a new country out of another's territory.
Quote:
Also, if Scotland were to become independent, it would be under the SNP's watch, and they would not want to be subservient to EU.

I think it would be cool for SNP to make Scotland independent of England once and for all, but I don't know if they could resist international pressure over EU, however much they wanted to. The trend we've seen over centuries is incorporation of more and more territory under larger, more centralized governments. It will be tough for Scotland to be the black sheep and break apart back into older national divisions.
Quote:
Sorry, you couldn't come to uni here. The universities over here are pretty good.

Yeah, I only wish I lived there so the government would pay my tuition bills. Edinburgh was my dream for a while.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


burnse22
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 383

13 May 2008, 9:30 pm

Orwell wrote:
Well, didn't English Labour just get pounded in the local elections? The new mayor of London is a Tory... Also, public will oftentimes can be difficult to translate into something as drastic as creating a new country out of another's territory.


Yeah, the opinions polls on it can change by more than 20% just on the wording of the question, but the SNP government currently has good approval ratings. By the way, it would be more correct to call it re-creating an old country.

You should go to Edinburgh for a holiday though, especially during festival time.



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

13 May 2008, 9:39 pm

burnse22 wrote:
Yeah, the opinions polls on it can change by more than 20% just on the wording of the question, but the SNP government currently has good approval ratings. By the way, it would be more correct to call it re-creating an old country.

True, it is re-forming an old country, but it was annexed by England so long ago that it is somewhat akin to calling for Naples or Piedmont to be independent states again. I didn't realize the Scottish Nationalist movement was so strong; I had previously been under the impression that that was more on the fringe.
burnse22 wrote:
You should go to Edinburgh for a holiday though, especially during festival time.

I hope to, but don't know when I'd have the time/money to do so. Maybe I'll study-abroad there.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


burnse22
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 383

13 May 2008, 9:52 pm

Orwell wrote:
True, it is re-forming an old country, but it was annexed by England so long ago that it is somewhat akin to calling for Naples or Piedmont to be independent states again. I didn't realize the Scottish Nationalist movement was so strong; I had previously been under the impression that that was more on the fringe.


The Treaty of Union was way back in 1707, but unlike other regions Scotland has retained a strong culture of its own and even now has seperate educational and legal systems. In the election last year the SNP gained one more seat than Labour and formed a minority government. Outside of the UK (hell, most on the time IN the UK) all you hear about is kilts and shortbread though. :roll:



Fred2670
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 305
Location: USA

13 May 2008, 10:22 pm

FFFFRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEDDDOOOOOOOOMMMMMM

Image


_________________
ALT+F4=Life


burnse22
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 383

13 May 2008, 10:28 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
FFFFRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEDDDOOOOOOOOMMMMMM

Image


Ugh, I hate Mel Gibson.



peebo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Mar 2006
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,624
Location: scotland

14 May 2008, 6:40 am

i can see in principal how it could be a good thing. although i'm not sure the snp could really run the country in much more of a competent manner than being part of the union. it seems, like most political parties, they are simply full of empty promises. look at their actions over student debt, for instance. but in principal yes i do support the idea.


_________________
?Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.?

Adam Smith


Macbeth
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2007
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,984
Location: UK Doncaster

14 May 2008, 8:18 am

Will they be taking back Gordon "tax monger" Brown? Can we put the wall back up? Will they finally get over it and quit being so damn racist towards the english? Will it make any difference at all?

And why isnt anyone bothered that the SNP might be a bit right wing and racist, like the BNP? Seems a touch odd.


_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]


burnse22
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 383

14 May 2008, 9:48 am

Macbeth wrote:
Will they be taking back Gordon "tax monger" Brown? Can we put the wall back up? Will they finally get over it and quit being so damn racist towards the english? Will it make any difference at all?

And why isnt anyone bothered that the SNP might be a bit right wing and racist, like the BNP? Seems a touch odd.


From the SNP manifesto for Holyrood: "The SNP believe Scotland and England should be equal nations – friends and partners - both free to make our own choices. "

The SNP is actually centre-left and the only thing they really have in common with the BNP is the similarity in the acronyms.



ascan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,194
Location: Taunton/Aberdeen

14 May 2008, 3:14 pm

Orwell wrote:
Quote:
Sorry, you couldn't come to uni here. The universities over here are pretty good.

Yeah, I only wish I lived there so the government would pay my tuition bills. Edinburgh was my dream for a while.

Yes, they're subsidised by English taxpayers. As the present occupier of no.10 used every trick in the book to extract hard cash from us in his previous role as chancellor, I'd rather you stayed where you were -- straw that broke the camel's back and all that -- I'm sure you'll understand.

Macbeth wrote:
And why isnt anyone bothered that the SNP might be a bit right wing and racist, like the BNP? Seems a touch odd..

Haven't you heard? White English people don't count. The SNP love ethnic diversity, as long as it doesn't involve anyone from south of Carlisle, or north of the Lizard Peninsula, who may have ever thought of voting Tory. So, you see, they're not racist, and the sun shines out their arseholes.



ascan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,194
Location: Taunton/Aberdeen

14 May 2008, 3:23 pm

As another thought, Scottish "independence" is about as ridiculous a concept as would independence for East Anglia or Cornwall be. For f**k's sake, you can drive from where I am in the south of England and be in Edinburgh in under six hours. It's just a minority of second-rate politicians who want a fat salary, and even fatter pension, courtesy of taxation, who are conning people into supporting it.



Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

14 May 2008, 3:26 pm

I am in support of having more independent nations, not less.