question for religious people

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I understand the implications better than you think.

Still though, if god was so loving and caring, why would he want people to subjugate themselves to him? To bow to him, and to worship him? That doesn't sound at all like a loving god, it sounds like a bitter god with a power trip.
And if you go back to arguing "we are the children" or w/e, then you are further proving my point, that you are not in control of your own life, someone else is. And that is the very definition of slavery. If there was a loving god, and it had a message to send, I think it's message is lost in the egotistical power trip of needing people to bow to and worship him. And such a power trip would never turn out a healthy, balanced relationship.

You have a different method of defining innocence. How many truly follow the practice? Not many. That is where deviation enters.



There is many things in this world that can be verified but are not because they are outside our scope. Where is HE in this world that you can subjectively test your results?

This discussions will go on ever and ever because people will hold strongly to their beliefs (atheist and the theist).

You can look at it anyway you want. I am not in control of myself, so I accept my position as a servant to Him. I'm not as arrogant to believe I can do whatever I so choose to.

You are treating Him as a partner. You cannot associate yourself with him with such descriptions you have. That is why you have this belief.

you guys really need to chech tomas aquinas proofs of gods existance. Having had the arch-angel Micheal pay me personal visits during several periods of my life i find all this atheism laughable. ANd my psych reports say not psychotic.

Atheist Explaination
In the case of cultish religions, the power trip is necessary. If a person's reason, self-interest, or self-image goes against the teachings of the cult, the only way for the cult to survive is to reward blind obediance and faith. The cognitive dissonance of the idea that 'god' is good and worthy of worship, but also selfish and rigid, demanding her believers to humble themselves before her, is resolved by claiming that 'god' is beyond human understanding. Any illogical statements are dismissed by this arguement, and any voices who raise them are called unenlighted, spiteful, or something along those lines.

Theist Explaination
It is not so much that God demands that his children subjugate themselves before him. God truly does love everyone unconditionally, and nothing can change that.
No, it is that when we are lost, in pain, alone, that by opening up to god, by ceasing to struggle and rail against her, we feel her love and find new strength. We come to understand that, no matter how frightening or painful our situation, it will be alright. She will walk beside us, comforting, reassuring, and welcome us into her arms when at last our journey is over. Against such awesome and steadfast love, we cannot help but feel humbled, amazed that we are worthy of such devotion.
It is beyond logic, beyond reason; it is a place that the mind simply cannot go. The harder one struggles for it, the further it goes. Only by being still, by accepting what is freely given without demand or ego, can we know the love of God.

Certainly not innocent.

Of course, Atheism is the LACK of belief, but that doesn't mean Atheists are nihilists, there are plenty of non-religious philosophies like Humanism.

ALL Religion amplifies the vices of mankind, Christianity included.

No-True-Scotsman Fallacy.

Aquinas's arguments were pwned in the late 1700s. You need to read Immanuel Kant's proofs that the existance of god cannot be proved with logic and deductive reasining, there is only belief based on blind faith or no belief.

Incorrect. Read the Bible for once instead of criticizing from afar.


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... version=9;

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.




Basically, sinners may claim to belong to Christ, but they aren't His. It's a matter of qualification:

Acceptance of Christ as Savior and Lord means: recognizing He is the prophesied Messiah of the Old Testament, and that you repent from your sins and live an honorable life for His name's sake. Many would die for Christs' sake, but how many will live for Christs' sake?

With only the absence of something to believe in, how can atheists be anything other than nihilistic?

This from Wikipedia on nihilism:

* Objective morality does not exist; therefore no action is logically preferable to any other.
* In the absence of morality, existence has no higher meaning or goal.
* There is no reasonable proof or argument for the existence of a higher ruler or creator.
* Even if a higher ruler or creator exists, mankind has no moral obligation to worship them.

The implication that atheists have no values because they do not believe in a super intelligence controlling the universe certainly does not indicate they adhere to all those four points. Social values are constructed to order society into some sort of decent method of people getting along with each other and prospering. You don't have to be religious to do that. As an atheist the last two statements seem reasonable to me. The first two have nothing to do with atheism.

I don't care what the Bible says, I care about what LOGIC says. If someone considers himself a Christian he is a Christian.