Americans have no right to vote for a President

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Fred2670
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04 Apr 2008, 6:41 am

The next President of the United States
should be elected by citizens of other nations.

If America is defined by its multitude of cultures,
and ethnic diversity and is truly the shining example
for other countries, then these other countries should
have more input and control over its direction. Only as
the states embrace globalism will they realize their role
as the worlds leader. Let America be the first world state.
Let its citizens be nothing more than "along for the ride".
The time has come for The United States to look outside
itself for the answers and acknowledge its brothers and
sisters on the world stage. The time has come to take
the first step toward peacefully coexisting with these
brothers and sisters instead of seeking the means to
rule over them. Give up your sovereignty baby..
a far greater thing awaits you


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Legato
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04 Apr 2008, 8:12 am

Yeah fark that shiz dude. I appreciate your utopian outlook on world government and everything, and I see where you're coming from, but simply, no. My country may be all kinds of screwed up, it may do horrible deplorable things, and I may hate the leadership of my country.

But I tell you what, America's still my home. I love it and will do whatever I can to make it a better place. The first step in anything is to vote damnit. If you don't vote for the representitive you believe will do the best job, then you have no right to b***h and moan about how messed up the government has become.
The second step is to spread awareness about the messed up things the government does do. Even though they'd rather have us think the opposite, the CIA, the Dept of Homeland Security, the Military, the President, the whole inflated Executive Branch is still accountable to us. Congress is accountable to its constituents.
We can get rid of the needless bureaucracy by simply electing people that will repeal the legislation that instated the bureaucracy in the first place. By just sitting idly by and watching things get worse, you ARE the freaking problem. The American people are the problem, not our government. Maybe if 10% of us actually cared about what our country is doing, we might change something.
The third step is to reform. We must learn from our past mistakes and change ourselves using the lessons learned.

But I'll tell you what man, by happily sitting idly by and watching your TV, drinking your beer, plugging into the network of pacifying indulgences we've been presented with, YOU are the one causing the Iraq war, YOU are the one letting our economy fail, and YOU are the one responsible for letting this country go to s**t.

Why we have forgotten and abused the gift of the Constitution that our founding fathers gave to us, I don't know, but it has to stop.

The only other option is continuing our descent toward corruption, materialism, apathy, and war.



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04 Apr 2008, 9:51 am

The day an American leads "my world", I'm jumping off the edge of the damned thing.

Although, I'll agree that if they're going to continue to poke into the affairs of other countries, then other ocuntries should have the right to poke into theirs.


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04 Apr 2008, 10:08 am

No nation is perfect, every nation have good, bad, and even ugly things about them, even the United States. If anyone remembers their American history, the majority of it occurs domesticly, not internationally. The international stage for the United States did not take place until World War I and afterwards, it focused more on domestic issues until Pearl Harbor, where the United States entered World War II and entered the international stage full time. In a history book that I read, it mentions that the United States have Canada to the north, Mexico to the south, and fish to the east and west.


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Ragtime
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04 Apr 2008, 10:30 am

Fred2670 wrote:
The next President of the United States
should be elected by citizens of other nations.

If America is defined by its multitude of cultures,
and ethnic diversity and is truly the shining example
for other countries, then these other countries should
have more input and control over its direction.


Wrong. The test of whether you're a true freedom and independence lover is whether you actually decide to bring yourself over to America from wherever in the world you were born. Those who think "America's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there" simply either don't understand my country, or fail the test of having enough boldly independent thought and ambition to be considered an American.

Fred2670 wrote:
Only as the states embrace globalism will they realize their role as the worlds leader.


Bunk. Every country looks up to America, and you know it. American tourists who travel the world always come back with surprise that the countries they visited display so much imported and copied American culture, music, food, even American sports. They mimick our TV, movies, clothing, phrases, cosmetics, and even adopt our language, because we are considered the most awesome country in the world. It is said that "Immitation is the highest form of flattery," so there you have it.
We are the pace-setters.
Other countries don't look up to us because we're like them.
They look up to us because we're the trailblazers -- the independent pioneers and adventurers, who succeeded in telling England to f**k off from trying to rule us and enforce their twisted version of religion upon us.
They look up to us because the other "first-world" countries which are much older than we are
are surpassed by us in nearly every major field.

We are the succeeders, and those who can't figure that out and those who don't think living here would be a great experience are incompetent to vote in our elections.

Fred2670 wrote:
The time has come to take
the first step toward peacefully coexisting with these
brothers and sisters instead of seeking the means to
rule over them. Give up your sovereignty baby..
a far greater thing awaits you


Gibberish. America is the leading humanitarian provider globally, and never goes to war over wanting more than to keep the peace. Americans are alive and awake, and therefore September 11th is the kind of thing that gets our attention.
By contrast, most of Germany's citizens zombied right through the Holocaust. They couldn't be bothered to realize that Hitler was killing their nation, and dooming its people to their post-war status of economic collapse and forced reparations to those nations and peoples they had invaded and killed for the sole purpose, as Hitler saw it, of world domination and genocide.


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Last edited by Ragtime on 04 Apr 2008, 10:44 am, edited 4 times in total.

spudnik
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04 Apr 2008, 10:39 am

WTF, that is not how its done in any country, least of all the USA, thats just "Crazy Talk" :roll:



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04 Apr 2008, 10:41 am

Fred2670 wrote:
The next President of the United States
should be elected by citizens of other nations.

If America is defined by its multitude of cultures,
and ethnic diversity and is truly the shining example
for other countries, then these other countries should
have more input and control over its direction. Only as
the states embrace globalism will they realize their role
as the worlds leader. Let America be the first world state.
Let its citizens be nothing more than "along for the ride".
The time has come for The United States to look outside
itself for the answers and acknowledge its brothers and
sisters on the world stage. The time has come to take
the first step toward peacefully coexisting with these
brothers and sisters instead of seeking the means to
rule over them. Give up your sovereignty baby..
a far greater thing awaits you



That not how it work in outer countries.

The other countries are not brother and sister, Japan can discriminate you for all I care.



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04 Apr 2008, 10:43 am

Oddly, though, the headline does have a grain of truth, which is why I popped in here.

According to our Constitution, we don't actually vote for a President - we vote for electors, who then meet in a convocation called the Electoral College, and communicate our wishes. The net effect is the same as if we had actually voted for the President ourselves, as the electors generally remain bound to whomever they were pledged to when they were sent. (I'm trying to remember which election it was in which one elector changed his vote on the basis that only Washington should be elected unanimously.)

As for the OP's actual point, when you can demonstrate that the one-quarter of the world's population that resides in China actually understands the responsibilities of free citizens, we can talk about extending our electoral process overseas. Until then, I'd really rather not have 25%+ of the votes for the Presidency dictated by the Politburo in Beijing, thanks...


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04 Apr 2008, 12:49 pm

Legato wrote:
Yeah fark that shiz dude. I appreciate your utopian outlook on world government and everything, and I see where you're coming from, but simply, no. My country may be all kinds of screwed up, it may do horrible deplorable things, and I may hate the leadership of my country.

But I tell you what, America's still my home. I love it and will do whatever I can to make it a better place. The first step in anything is to vote damnit. If you don't vote for the representitive you believe will do the best job, then you have no right to b***h and moan about how messed up the government has become.
The second step is to spread awareness about the messed up things the government does do. Even though they'd rather have us think the opposite, the CIA, the Dept of Homeland Security, the Military, the President, the whole inflated Executive Branch is still accountable to us. Congress is accountable to its constituents.
We can get rid of the needless bureaucracy by simply electing people that will repeal the legislation that instated the bureaucracy in the first place. By just sitting idly by and watching things get worse, you ARE the freaking problem. The American people are the problem, not our government. Maybe if 10% of us actually cared about what our country is doing, we might change something.
The third step is to reform. We must learn from our past mistakes and change ourselves using the lessons learned.

But I'll tell you what man, by happily sitting idly by and watching your TV, drinking your beer, plugging into the network of pacifying indulgences we've been presented with, YOU are the one causing the Iraq war, YOU are the one letting our economy fail, and YOU are the one responsible for letting this country go to sh**.

Why we have forgotten and abused the gift of the Constitution that our founding fathers gave to us, I don't know, but it has to stop.

The only other option is continuing our descent toward corruption, materialism, apathy, and war.


Legato.... Our votes do not count. In fact, you can't name a single time in history, anywhere in the world, where voting has kept anything bad from happening. It's an illusion. Look how Bush stole the election. Now, look at this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cy1IlAXeV30

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZMQc2PYLcnc

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zWKxwVZmomc

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BY4aL2KGZJs

http://youtube.com/watch?v=S6lYresqb-A

As a matter of fact, the voting illusion helps keep the elites in power. You'd be more patriotic for humanity not to vote. Even communist and fascist dictatorships make their citizens vote (although they don't get to choose who they vote for, but it's not as if we've really got a choice who gets into our office anyways).
The electoral colledge decides who gets in office, and it's heavily controlled by corporate interests like any other establishment. I'm telling ya bra, this goes far deeper than 9/11, federal reserve, or Ron Paul's capabilities. Ron Paul and his campaigne are being used as a drag net to keep truthers in this system and to get NWO dissenters names put on a list.
Usually the candidate that raises the most money for corporate lobbyists gets the election. They will play lip service to the people to keep the illusion of our vote alive, but once their in office they do not have to do a thing they said they would. They won't be impeached for breaking their word to the people, they'll only be impeached if they do something to piss off their puppet masters.
Also.... Our founding fathers were freemasons. They intended to set us up as a so-called "free nation" to establish a country with a humanitarian reputation to police the world (which you see us doing now). Kinda like the League of Nations (which later became the UN), the people behind this organization, the bankers, etc, gave us WW1 and 2, to set the stage for the UN and Isreal. It was all planned.
Money is a more subtle form of slavery through taxation. This has long been admitted by these elites, Darwin even stated this to be the "natural order of things". Nations, money, religion, culture, politics, industry, it's all a big huge illusion. None of it really matters, they just want the people to believe it does. Keep everyone plugged in. Civilization as we know it has always been a caste system of slavery of the people. And they are masters at manipulating peoples' emotions and their minds, they've had many years and generations experienced passed down in brainwashing the public (you can see it very easily here). They can condition people to defend their own chains to the death without a second though.



Last edited by snake321 on 04 Apr 2008, 1:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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04 Apr 2008, 12:50 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
The next President of the United States
should be elected by citizens of other nations.

If America is defined by its multitude of cultures,
and ethnic diversity and is truly the shining example
for other countries, then these other countries should
have more input and control over its direction. Only as
the states embrace globalism will they realize their role
as the worlds leader. Let America be the first world state.
Let its citizens be nothing more than "along for the ride".
The time has come for The United States to look outside
itself for the answers and acknowledge its brothers and
sisters on the world stage. The time has come to take
the first step toward peacefully coexisting with these
brothers and sisters instead of seeking the means to
rule over them. Give up your sovereignty baby..
a far greater thing awaits you


I'm not so enthusiastic about your one world "utopian" orwellian dictatorship.



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04 Apr 2008, 12:52 pm

Ragtime wrote:
By contrast, most of Germany's citizens zombied right through the Holocaust.


it was an american teacher who singlehandedly duplicated that same effect in a classroom experiment. funny enough, the whole thing took off so extremely that even the teacher himself got into it. (it was ron jones, 1976, the experiment being called "the third wave") dont tell me a thing about your country not falling prey to what happened throughout history all over the world.

i wont say a thing about your claims on the cultural (or other) superiority of america, cause i find them pretty laughable.



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04 Apr 2008, 12:52 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Wrong. The test of whether you're a true freedom and independence lover is whether you actually decide to bring yourself over to America from wherever in the world you were born. Those who think "America's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there" simply either don't understand my country, or fail the test of having enough boldly independent thought and ambition to be considered an American.


That's a perfect example of why Americans are regarded as arrogant by citizens of other countries.



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04 Apr 2008, 1:17 pm

Ragtime wrote:
By contrast, most of Germany's citizens zombied right through the Holocaust. They couldn't be bothered to realize that Hitler was killing their nation, and dooming its people to their post-war status of economic collapse and forced reparations to those nations and peoples they had invaded and killed for the sole purpose, as Hitler saw it, of world domination and genocide.


Why this was possible, why the majority didn't stand and resist was because the way Nazis established themselves was, sadly, extremely 'brilliant' -

as in strategic use of financials, psychological tools and propaganda, alongside with other means of manipulation.

A huge part of their success is attributed to the shielding and choking of an emotional response.

Crashing planes to kill off thousands isn't very 'brilliant' on the other side. It's not manipulative (unless you want an insert reaction of revenge). It's stupid, outrageous, horrible and everyone all over the world was struck in front of the TV.

The emotional response was 1. immediate and 2. enormous.

9/11 and the Holocaust have no common ground, sorry.

Except maybe one thing. That both are horrible in a way that words cannot describe them.




On another note...

I want to remain European. Not become 'US'. Europe has its own identity by a long history. Although the European forget this out of this very same history. Ours was never a pride of many, it's a shame.



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04 Apr 2008, 1:29 pm

Sora wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
By contrast, most of Germany's citizens zombied right through the Holocaust. They couldn't be bothered to realize that Hitler was killing their nation, and dooming its people to their post-war status of economic collapse and forced reparations to those nations and peoples they had invaded and killed for the sole purpose, as Hitler saw it, of world domination and genocide.


Why this was possible, why the majority didn't stand and resist was because the way Nazis established themselves was, sadly, extremely 'brilliant' -

as in strategic use of financials, psychological tools and propaganda, alongside with other means of manipulation.

A huge part of their success is attributed to the shielding and choking of an emotional response.

Crashing planes to kill off thousands isn't very 'brilliant' on the other side. It's not manipulative (unless you want an insert reaction of revenge). It's stupid, outrageous, horrible and everyone all over the world was struck in front of the TV.

The emotional response was 1. immediate and 2. enormous.

9/11 and the Holocaust have no common ground, sorry.

Except maybe one thing. That both are horrible in a way that words cannot describe them.




On another note...

I want to remain European. Not become 'US'. Europe has its own identity by a long history. Although the European forget this out of this very same history. Ours was never a pride of many, it's a shame.


Wrong, 9/11 was our reichstag fire, they big boys had talked about needing another Pearl Harbor. Enter 9/11. In fact, even going further back, the president at the time (I believe it was Einsenhower) knew Pearl Harbor was gonna go down. They've even admitted to this on the history channel.



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04 Apr 2008, 3:40 pm

gekitsu wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
By contrast, most of Germany's citizens zombied right through the Holocaust.


it was an american teacher who singlehandedly duplicated that same effect in a classroom experiment. funny enough, the whole thing took off so extremely that even the teacher himself got into it. (it was ron jones, 1976, the experiment being called "the third wave") dont tell me a thing about your country not falling prey to what happened throughout history all over the world.

i wont say a thing about your claims on the cultural (or other) superiority of america, cause i find them pretty laughable.


I'm not saying that the Holocaust couldn't happen elsewhere; many such massacres have occurred throughout history and were perpetrated by many different nations. My point is that Americans sitting in a puddle of overwrought shame and focusing on only that shame is not going to solve anything, except to make those who hate us think they've won. Hitler took hold in Germany -- not that Germany was the most anti-Semitic country in the world -- not at all. Right now, in fact, I believe Indonesia ranks #1 in anti-Semitism. To a degree, it was just chance. Europe is famously anti-Semitic -- the difference is the Nazis decided to act out that anti-Semitism in the most extreme ways, and happened to cull the power to do that from the surrounding atmosphere of a very anti-Semitic country.

The Oscar Schindlers -- good for them, they are heros, as he and others are honored in Israel in the "Righteous Gentiles" section of Yad Vashem, Israel's Holocaust Memorial Museum. Could a Holocaust occur anywhere? Pretty much, yes, unfortunately. Like I said, that specifically Germany fell for a Holocaust instigator was to a degree random chance; there's so much anti-Semitism in the world, and not least in Europe, that virtually any country could conceivably, under the right circumstances, have perpetrated the Holocaust.

Again, when I praise my country, I do it for encouragement, not toward wrongful pride. I do it because so many people both in America and all over the world are speaking lies about us, lies born of envy and designed to discourage our independent ways which have made us the top among the world leaders. Europe as a whole finally acknowledged the successful tactic of working together, having seen how well the "melting pot" works in the United States. They saw that, when people of all backgrounds work together with a class structure or needless segregation, they work best as a whole. And so, learning from the U.S., Europe formed the EU. And it has helped. And slowly, other countries around the world are getting the idea that America's formula works, and works very well. If we beat ourselves up, we can succeed in making ourselves feel bad. But why? Whereas, if we concentrate on our strengths, we will stay motivated to continue succeeding as only America has.


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04 Apr 2008, 3:56 pm

BesideYouInTime wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Wrong. The test of whether you're a true freedom and independence lover is whether you actually decide to bring yourself over to America from wherever in the world you were born. Those who think "America's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there" simply either don't understand my country, or fail the test of having enough boldly independent thought and ambition to be considered an American.


That's a perfect example of why Americans are regarded as arrogant by citizens of other countries.


You don't think it's arrogant for the UN and other countries to essentially say, "Hold on there, America: You shouldn't make a single decision without our approval"? America is not about -- and has never been about -- strict conformism. That's why we have a Constitution granting us a plethora of freedoms, including the freedom of speech and religion. We don't ask permission to believe what we want to believe, and we don't let other countries arrogantly tell us what we can and cannot do.
Neither do other countries ask each other for permission to make their own policies.


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