Why are so many Christians opposed to a civilised society???

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Being a sort-of Christian myself, I have often wondered at the hypocracy of this.

Why are (right-wing) Christians opposed to social security and welfare, when it is the only decent way of ensuring that all the country's population live above the starvation line?

Is it because they feel that some people are inferior (immigrants???) and do not deserve assistance?

Or is it because they prefer the antiquated notion of private charity in which they get a feel good factor for donating miniscule amounts of money to 'worthy' causes and let the rest go hungry?

Or they might be narrow-minded and prejudiced and not truly Christian at all?

That's true. They might just say they are Christian in order to go to Heaven, even when they have lived very unethical lives.

Or they think that the "Puritan work ethic" is the key to salvation. Jesus tells his apostles that "those that would eat must work."

Some folks take that a little too literally.

They forget his injunctions to console the suffering and feed the hungry.

Or maybe they just want to be too right-wing like most other Christians. Jesus wasn't a Republican.

I think I might have to be iconoclastic enough to say he was apolitical.

Basic point: everyone has sinned at least once in their lives, even Christians. God is the only one who can be perfect (or who ever was perfect), so he can't have imperfection in his presence. That's why he sent Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. I'm sure you guys have all heard the story, so I won't bother repeating it here.

Sometimes Christians say one thing, but in their hearts are thinking about something else. Most of these kinds of people are hypocrites. They say that we must be perfect and follow all the rules in order to get into heaven, but they don't. There is always a chance that these kinds of people are not always true, genuine Christians.

Only that specfic person and God know if the person is a Christian or not. It is completely between them and God. You can lie to other people all you want (I am not advocating this, however), but it's really not a good idea to lie to God. He knows what you're thinking and can tell if you're trying to lie to him by saying you're a Christian when you're really not.



I don't think Jesus was a Republican, either. He almost seemed more moderate or even liberal, if you read parts of Scripture, but I'd have to check into that a little more before coming to an accurate conclusion.



The Puritan work ethic is not a bad thing to have. Paul mentions that we must work and be prepared for when Jesus is coming back in one of his letters (Thessalonians?). The people in that specific church were so anxious for Jesus to return to earth that they weren't doing anything and were just idiling their days away. There is a quote from LotR that goes "For who would lie idle when the King has returned?". This can be used as a biblical allusion, because Jesus is often referred to as the King (mostly in Revelation). We aren't supposed to waste our days doing nothing as if Jesus is going to come back tomorrow.

The work ethic thing can go a bit too far, however. The Pharisees embody the legalistic approach to everything, an approach that Jesus reprimands several times. Also, there is a story about Mary and Martha welcoming Jesus into their house. Martha is busy cooking, cleaning, doing everything to prepare stuff for Jesus, but Mary is talking to him and spending personal time with him. Jesus scolds Martha for being too busy to spend time together.

The last thing about work ethic is it won't do much good if we do it for the wrong purposes. I mean, I can decide to help my sister with her homework just because I feel like being nice, expecting nothing in return. Or I can help her with her homework with the expectation that she'll do part of my chores for me. There's a difference between these senarios.

Well, that pretty much wraps up my short essay... if anyone wants to talk about it more, feel free to PM me about what I've said.

I think that the answer has several facets.

Anything resembling social aid and welfare (minus proseletyzing- as you see with soup kitchens or gospel missions) is associated with the hated Democrat. Most hard core conservative Christians are not Republicans because they oppose aborton. In fact, nearly all the ultra conservative Christians I've met and discussed politics with vote based on two or three issues: abortion, prayer in schools, and gay rights (er, the lack of them).

But I think the root of it is deeper than that. The core 'truth' of this kind of belief system is that God is harsh, cruel, and mean without good reason unless you toe his line. If you haven't been informed of His way, too bad! It isn't, contrary to popular opinion, a merciful, caring, or compassionate religion at all. It has very little tolerance for anyone different or who doesn't fit their mold or dress or act the way they do.

Besides, if everything was hunky dory and people were happy, living worthwhile lives, they wouldn't be motivated to look towards a fairy tale of a wondeful afterlife. And that simply can't happen, because they need numbers. A Christian church is considered a failure if they don't have new Christians to crow about on a regular basis, and especially in impressive quantities at once (as at tent revivals and vacation bible schools, youth camps, etc). People who are extremely happy just as they are aren't too motivated to join a church, change their lifestyle, hang out with simpering phonies, and shell out money every week to support it.

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Last edited by Ante on 09 Nov 2005, 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I have as much vague disdain for organized religion as the next atheist, but that is just so over the top I can't even tell if you're joking or not.

Along with the bad, Christianity does a lot of good for a LOT of people. And besides, religion in general must be doing something right to have come this far with its reputation mostly intact.

First, I hardly ever see Ante post anything serious, unless its seriously funny.

Second, the United States was founded by a bunch of religious freaks, and I dont mean freaks as evangelicals (although they are too), I mean freaks as in truly freaky. Even their home countries were smart enough to see them as a detrement.

Third, Christianity since the time of Constantine has been all about controlling the masses through fear and a sick bunch of lies and half truths. Does it surprise anyone that this continues?

If Jesus were alive, I think that he would want to tear down the cruel edifice of Christianity. I also think that Christian leaders would kill him for suggesting it and mobilizng to make it happen.

Where I come from, social security and welfare are not consedered issues that will have an impact on the practice of Christianity the way that homosexuality or the individual's right to demonstrate their religious beliefs publicly do. Social services is rarely an issue that is avocated for or against in churches.


In the case of refugees, assistance should be extended to them. Not like the massive sums of money that the Venameese boat people got, but more tham welfare. Documented immigrants should be expected to find work. Illegal aliens are not our problem to look after. We have no moral or legal obligation to care for them and they should be deported to wherever they came from.


Charities predate any government services. Nobody expects what they give will make everything better only help. Likewise, nobody expects social services to make anything better, only help, at best. For someone to really thrive, they must want to look after themself instead of living off of handouts. When I attended my parent's church, I got really annoyed with them about blowing off my suggestion to replace the days where they hand out food with job fairs.

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Last edited by Ante on 09 Nov 2005, 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sean, our social security system in the UK does work. Everyone lives above the hunger line. When I walk around the streets of my home city (Cambridge) there is not a single homeless person in sight, and there hasn't been for many years.

I've read a lot about hypocrisy in religion. Like the opposition to homosexuality, I remember reading somewhere that there's lots of other things that the bible is opposed to but doesn't enforce, probably because they don't make sense anymore (I read somewhere that women who wear two different stitching patterns gets stoned to death or something like that- someone can correct me on it). So if they can change that for time, they can with their rules against homosexuality.

Apparently there's also history to show that when the bible was written we only got half the story, apparently there was part of it written from a womens point of view that never got made in or something like that.

One of my favourite quotes from The Simpsons was when Homer was kicked out of the house but when Reverend Lovejoy and his wife came to visit, Homer thought it was good news because the Reverend was meant to push the sanctity of marriage due to their religion but inside Reverend says to Marge "Get a divorce" and Marge replies "But isn't that a sin?" and then Rev. Lovejoy says "Marge, practically everythings a sin. Have you ever sat down and read this thing? [holding up the bible] Technically we're not allowed to go to the bathroom".

I like the phrase that Christ will be no one's banner. He cannot be forced in to a political rallying point. He is totally seperate from the distinction of Republican or Democrat.