Nazi Properganda?

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I wondered what was in the minds of average German citizen before the wartime to make the go to war. What kind propaganda worked on them; to make them risk their own lives for what they sure as good. Did they see the Brits as something wicked?

Any articles or videos on subject.

One good place to start would be the writings of William L. Shirer. He was a reporter stationed in Germany during 1933-1945 (or thereabouts).

Also, one has to understand what it was like to be a German after WWI.

Your country had been required at gun-point to not only admit 100% culpability for the Great War, but your country was forced to pay "reparations" to your enemies, also negotiated at gun-point. This was quite a morale blow. During the Great Depression, Allied countries refused to renegotiate the reparation payments, which contributed to monumental levels of German inflation--worst in the world.

Your country's resource-richest region was militarily occupied by France.

Pomerania and other Polish lands had been forcibly separated from Germany and given to a country that didn't exist before the Great War. Germany had held the Polish territories since 1795 and lost them in 1919. To Poles, these were part of the reconstituted Poland, but to Germans the territories had been part of Germany for over a century.

Finally, by 1933, you were starving or about to starve. A loaf of bread cost millions of Marks. The social-democratic governments had failed miserably in dealing with any of the domestic woes that beset Germany. Then somebody came along and promised CHANGE. This charismatic leader would change everything and restore Germany's proper place in the world.

Once this charismatic leader managed to finagle his way into office (and it was a finagle), he immediately instituted massive social programs, which boosted his party's popularity greatly.

Then Germany started moving. The German military marched into the Rhineland, and France retreated without firing a shot. Germany demanded the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia, and Britain and France conspired to have that country dismembered in the name of "peace". By the time 1939 rolled around, the average German felt his country to be invincible.

France, the hated enemy, the #1 international foe of Germany, was cowardly--it had retreated before German might already. Britain had agreed to sell out an ally (Czechoslovakia) rather than risk war against Germany. And the USSR? In 1939 it had some rather public friendly agreements with Germany, even though the Nazis were officially anti-communist.

Anyway, that's just a nutshell summary, there's a lot more to it than that.

Thanks dude

Hitler brainwashed the nazis the same way Lenin brainwashed the bolsheviks: By claiming to be the suppressed voice of the workers, and attacking minority groups.

"The Origins of Totalitarism" by Hannah Arendt. Get it. Read it.

AJP Taylor, perhaps the most famous British historian of the 20th century (and a socialist to boot), wrote a controversial book several years ago where he argued that Hitler did not have a master-plan to take over Europe, but that he blundered into the war pretty much by accident. I’m halfway through the book now. I’ve read enough elsewhere to suggest to me that this view of Hitler as some madman who wanted to take over the entire world and who managed to hypnotize an entire nation through his oratory is rubbish.

I’ve read enough, for example, to suggest to me that Hitler did not even want war with Britain, and that he did not want war on the Western Front at all. Germany invaded Czechoslovakia because of the 3 millions Germans who had found themselves living there as a minority after the Paris Peace Conference of 1919. Germany invaded Poland because Poland would not negotiate over the city of Danzig, which was part of Poland, cut off from Germany, but which contained 350,000 ethnic Germans. And the main reason Poland would not negotiate was that Britain had offered Poland a war guarantee, even though the British government had long believed that Danzig should be returned to Germany. So it was Britain that declared war on Germany. And contrary to popular belief, it was Britain, not Germany, that started the aerial bombardment of civilians. Germany made five peace offers to Britain. They were all turned down.

With regard to Germany’s anti-Jewish policies, apparently up until 1939 the Polish government was considered by the outside world to be even more anti-Jewish than Germany’s National Socialists. It’s unlikely Churchill was motivated by a desire to help the Jews.

There are another couple of mainstream books that came out recently challenging the myths of WW2: Churchill, Hitler And The Unnecessary War by Pat Buchanan and Human Smoke by Nicholson Baker.

More articles: http://www.lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan84.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... chens.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/lind/lind142.html

Last edited by codarac on 06 Aug 2008, 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Imagine what Britain would be like today if we’d lost the war. Our children would be brainwashed in their schools. Free speech would be outlawed. We’d be ruled by an uncaccountable bureaucratic machine on the other side of the channel, and we’d be surrounded by foreigners who spoke no English.

Oh, erm… that’s exactly what Britain is like today.

I have this story from a German lady I went to church with many years ago. She lived in Germany during WWII and married an American serviceman a few weeks after the war, then came to the US with him. Before Hitler, her mother took all the family's money to the bakery in a wheelbarrow (and it filled the wheelbarrow) in order to buy bread. She couldn't get the wheelbarrow in through the door, so she left it outside while she went in, got the bread, and took it to the counter. When she went back out, someone had taken the wheelbarrow and LEFT THE MONEY.

Inflation was horrible in Germany after WWI. No one had money for anything. Hitler did manage to accomplish a few good things (disgusting man that he was--shudder). He restarted Germany's industry, instituted a regularized work week with scheduled vacations and minimum living wage, devised "people's" versions of luxury items (like the Volkswagon -- "people's car"), and revived national pride. If any of the first few assassination attempts had been successful, Hitler would have gone down in history as Germany's savior. Sad he lived so long?

Some feel as though the States need a strong voice to bring its citizens together against those who prey upon them. United they might stand a chance against the greedy corporations and their foreign labor force. United they might reforge a nation that better resembles the one intended by the founding fathers.

Too bad the Soviet dictators preyed upon their own people. Besides, large coorporations, international trade and globalization is necessary to build up the economy and maintain a high standard of living. Rummel's law states that the less freedom the people have, the more likely their rulers are to kill them (as evidenced by as*holes such as Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao etc.).

And the very well-annotated "Rise and Fall of the Third Riech" makes it quite plain from actual, verifiable quotes of Hitler's and his cronies that there was a rather complete master plan for the takeover of Europe, down to how each European country was to be disposed of after the war. AJP Taylor did not have access to a lot of the documents that William Shirer had.



Those "Germans" had never been citizens of Germany, nor had their ancestors. The Paris Peace Conference did not suddenly draw lines that expatriated a bunch of German citizens. Those "Germans" were, if anything, actually Austrians. Anyway, Hitler was actually enraged that there was not a war over Czechoslovakia. He was not only expecting war but deeply desired it. Shirer quotes the specific documents to this effect in "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich".



Again, Shirer's documentation reveals that Germany had been planning to invade Poland since 1933, and Hitler's desire to wipe Poland off the map was made plain by him since before he ascended to power.



The "peace offers" all required that the UK accept German conquests as permanent and legal.



Ah, yes, the old "Somebody ELSE is doing it" crap. Well, if that means that someone ELSE is a worse pedophile, it makes the local pedophile okay? And Churchill never pretended to want to help the Jews. His motive was always blatantly to protect the UK.



You live in the UK, so you are can be presumed to be ignorant of the fact that Pat Buchanan is not "mainstream" in the USA. He is a far-right pundit who was so much of a loose cannon and extremist that Newt Gingrich drove him out of the Republican Party.

Baker is a novelist...

Only weaklings demand a strong hand to lead them. Only slaves demand a master.

There is a book called "The Children's Story" by James Clavell in which he shows how much one person can twist thought in just a few minutes with just a little effort. It starts with the assumption that the US has been overrun by a communist country, and that the country desires to assimilate the remainder of the population as peacefully as possible. The book takes place in a classroom one morning during the first few minutes of class. It's amazing reading--and gave me the shivers when I read it.

I highly recommend the book if you are interested in this thread. It might help answer some of your "why" questions.

The ordinary German citizen going to war.

In some ways it all goes back to 1918. By November 1918 Germany was on its last legs. Germany was a net importer and during the war their only source was through the North Sea, and the British had that secured. Stockpiles were going down, the people were reduced to using turnips for bread, the Spanish Flu was ravishing all of Europe but hitting Germany hardest. Crucially though Germany was not defeated in battle. Even as the Kaiser was forced to surrender there was no clear sense among the populace and the armed forces that Germany had actually lost. The treaty of Versaille took away vast areas of land for Germany, imposed demanding reparations, and worst of all, for some, blamed the entire war on Germany. Rightfully or wrongfully Germany was humiliated. Hitler was one of many who advanced the "stab in the back" theory, i.e. "IT WUZ TEH JEWS!", and promised to return Germany to its former pre-WW1 glory. A lot of people wanted this and went along with him, even if they disagreed with his politics.

In the 1930s Hitler had been very successful in his actions, annexing Austria, invading Czechoslovakia, with little reaction or interference from the international community. Nobody expected a long war, most Germans thought that France or Britain would not really fight. Germans in general thought that the war was just going to be over Poland anyway. Like the wars of old it was a chance to fight for your country, earn some glory and come home a hero in time for Christmas.

While before WW2 Hitler wasn't as popular or as powerful as he was (and is) made out to be, the important thing is that the average citizen considered the Nazi's omniscient and omnipotent. While a lot of people were discontent, there was no real organised resistance. When war came about though these people hoped that Europe would finally fight back and Hitler would be disposed. Or a repeat of the end WW1, with Hitler forced to resign. Some even thought that once Hitler achieved his aims he would retire!

That's what I can come up with right now. Finding out what the average German thought is naturally very difficult though, as there is not a lot of objective and accurate sources. I would suggest you find a book specifically about the subject.

brainwashed? what a joke. brainwashing isn't even 100% on a 1-on-1 aspect rather attempting a massive brainwashing like that and they didn't even have the tools we have today with the media sources.


speaking of jokes....a joke site better explains the processes that lead to the nazis.

http://www.cracked.com/article_16239_5- ... oomed.html


seriously....stanford prison experiment + milgram experiment = nazis, guantanamo bay/abu ghraib

I have some knowledge of the Stanford Prison Experiment, and there seems to be universal surprise at how quickly the fake "prison" evolved away from what the researchers had intended and into a gulag without much in the way of organized conspiracy. To me it suggests that there is some pathway in the human brain that allows for any person to achieve happiness while inflicting barbaric treatment on others. It was suggested in the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings that some people may experience a form of emotional ecstasy in mass murder, similar to religious rapture in Christianity or deep meditation in Buddhism. This could be why the goal of mass killers is to die after the act-they've gotten to the promised land, and flesh and blood existence is no longer needed.

Israeli journalist Gershom Gorenberg called this "entering the redeemed world" in The End Of Days, his 2000 study of apocalyptic belief. He went into depth on what happened to the followers of Shabtai Tzvi, a 16th century Jew who claimed to be the Messiah, only to convert to Islam under the threat of execution. His followers would have willingly bared their necks to Muslim scimitars if the messiah had, instead the messiah betrayed them. The problem is, some of his followers had already entered redemption. Many of them converted to Christianity or Islam en masse, the cultural equivalent of suicide. Others preserved the idea that Tzvi was the messiah, and it evolved into a neo-Jewish cult, complete with ritual adultery and pork eating to prove worthiness for redemption. The cult may have lasted in Europe until the Final Solution wiped out most of the continent's Jews.

Mass killers may go through something similar-once in the promised land, returning to the physical world is not an option. This probably describes Islamic jihadists. Murder is the ultimate forsaking of everyday existence, the ultimate denial of flesh. This may explain the contradictory notion that Martin Luther King Jr. had a strong sense in 1968 that he was a goner, but that was ok by him. When he said, the night before he was killed, that he'd gotten to the Promised Land, he MEANT it.