How old is human civilisation?

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The official story is that civilisation began around 6-8000 BC in mesopotamia. However there is speculation about the Sphinx in Egypt dating to over 10,000 BC.

Does anyone think it is likely that prior to this time there could have been a global civilisation on Earth like there is now? But that world sufferred a catastrophe and ended?

There is enough time in human history for many civilisations to rise to the level we are now, destroy themselves and all evidence lost.

There would be more evidence in the soil layers, agriculture and sedentary lifestyle leave definite imprints on the landscape. As is there is a gradual evolution of tools and items found on archaeological digs that supports the current academic positions on the developmental timeline of civilization

About 10,000 - 15,000 years. Prior to that humans were primarily hunter gatherers and lived in small family or kin based groups.

There was little spare time for food to develop culture and art although some art did exist even 35,000 to 40,000 years ago.

Prior to agriculture humans lived very close to the margin of survival. When the game was plentiful good news. When the game was scarce, starvation was at hand.

ruveyn

I saw a documentary once which claimed that stone is the most enduring of all materials for us to "record" our history.

It is also the hardest to write on. Stone records are not very portable and they take a long time to make.

ruveyn

Actually genetics is pretty good as a source of evidence as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

Göbekli Tepe was first built 12,000 years ago, there is a very good reason to put this as the birth place of civilisation, the genetic evidence from wheat.

Wheat is just a form of grass and all modern cultivated wheat has a certain specific mutation to do with how the seed heads attach to the plant that it make it possible to harvest.

That specific mutation originated in a valley right next to Göbekli Tepe, the wild wheat that grows around it is the genetic ancestor of all cultivated wheat on the planet.

Stone endures longer than any material that is man made so if there was a civilisation over 12,000 years ago like the one we have now then all traces would be gone today except for the stone.

I like the speculation that the sphinx was carved from stone over 10000BC, it gives the implication that a major civilisation existed then.

There are stone tools that go back millions of years.
But stone structures only go back to that site in Turkey (10k years ago). And stones with actual written inscriptions only go back 5000 years.

So if there was a high tech civilization before 12 thousand years ago then where are the inscribed stones it left?

Do you mean human as homo sapien only?


What about this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18449711

probably can't be classified as a 'civilization' but it's still interesting to read ;p

Putting an exact date on when civilization occurred is impossible, because it occurred at different times in different places, and still hasn't occurred in some isolated places. We still don't really have a global civilization today, and it's doubtful (IMO) based on the evidence that one ever existed before. We've found evidence of dinosaurs, which existed long before humans, but not of an ancient global civilization.

any minute now

I totally agree DC.

People before this Göbekli Tepe local were hunter-gatherers. For them to take this wild wheat and capitilize on it to make it a dependable ongoing source of a cultivational food source is a big step towards settling down and getting your urban groove on. You can still let the boys go hunt, but you can now have a base to come home to. And as a group makes it all easier, you now have something more than family... you are starting civilization.

Then you domesticate a few cows. Wait, let's get some sheep going on up in here. You teach the dog to bring in the chicken..

From this point you find time on your hands to do some other things. "Gee, look at me, this giant brain, extra time, hmm - maybe I'll smoke this and paint awhile..."

And from this point you feel the need to thank your lucky stars for all this cool stuff, or worship your ancestors for helping you get to this spot, or maybe you go the distance and worship great imagined beings who surely allowed all this to be.

Another big step is writing all about it in the editorials. But I think that step is over rated as a sign of "civilization started here <--"
I think it is an add-on, a sort of self indulgence. This is man's big chance to brag about himself to other men.. and also a chance to control other men...

You know, like, "now looky here, lookit what we done!" Writings, inscriptions, whatever are Very importatant! They are signs of a great civilization that is to come. One that will self evolve into ever greater and greater ones.

- - but the written language comes After the basics.

But yeah DC, I only found out about Göbekli Tepe a year ago. The old German professor in charge has been scraping around there for a lot of years. The place took everyone by suprise as civilization was advertised as begining on the Tigrus and Euphrates the whole time before. Here was a place, just at the edge of receding ice age glaciers, that had peeps who got civil game! Some say it goes 12,000 years back.

And this Is a civilization that just so happens does Not have an inscription driven written language. But dude let me tell ya, lifting 32,000 lb stone forms into place and doing some groovy relief carving into them is making some language to Me!

And of course, 'They' say these represent the cradle of religious expression. I say OK.... but I think it's a 'religion' that is based on the unified clan and the family leaders and a nod to the mean beasts that kicked their stoneage asses on occasion.

Here's another cool link to Göbekli...
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/ ... /mann-text

it would surely depend upon how one defines civilisation. there are surely some who would argue that it has never existed at all.

Depends on what you define as civilization.
Living in cities, with a written language and laws? Then doubtlessly Mesopotamia, though you can make an argument that Catal Hyuck (spelling, I'm sure), where you had a neolithic level town in modern Turkey, complete with a temple.
High art? Then you can push it back much further to paleolithic Europe, where Cro Magnon people had created the cave paintings in the south of France. Countless centuries later, Picasso had stood in awe of them.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I've always thought civilisation was defined by the evidence of humans using their energies for something that isn't related to their immediate survival. So evidence of pottery, art, science, together with evidence that they lived in one place.

The cave paintings are spectacular. I saw some in northern Spain a few years back. But we do not know why they were created.

My point in the OP is to speculate that civilisation could have existed back then because everything other than stone would decay over a few thousand years.

It is true that the pyramids will be gone in a few thousand years, along with the sphinx. And if all humans dissapeared today, then it would take only a thousand years or so before all trace of us has gone. The only remaining things will be huge structures we build today out of stone (perhaps the statue of Jesus in Brazil may endure).

So anyone left to speculate will have very little to go on.

The pyramids and the sphinx are made out of stone.