Absolute Certainty versus Existential Crisis

Post Reply New Topic

Facts are dubious, sometimes dangerous things. Uncertainty and doubt are worse than being certainly wrong, in some cases. The most frustrating thing about religion, to me anyway, is that while I can rationalize why my faith would be worth believing in, and how one could be justified in believing it, I am still not certain that this religion is actually *needed* to explain anything. In the end, virtually all arguments for or against the existence of a supreme being negate each other. If there's a way to know God, I am certain it is not through philosophical reasoning, as that, to quote Ambrose Bierce, is a route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing.

So I propose a hypothetical question for everyone to answer, no matter what your beliefs. If, somehow, you were faced with irrefutable proof of the existence or non-existence of God, how would you feel? What would you do differently, if anything? As I am not certain at the moment what absolute certainty in either case would do for me, I can currently provide no answer.

It would be completely irrelevant to me, except to the degree that it influenced the beliefs, moods, and actions of the people around me. I've arrived at my code of ethics based on practical observation and experience, and the existence or non-existence of a higher being wouldn't affect that.

However, it would also depend on the nature of the God who was proven to exist. If God's existence also meant that all the stuff about God picking only certain people to take to heaven and sending the rest to hell, it would suddenly become in my self-interest to follow God's teachings, and I would likely do so. But in that scenario, I would not think of "god" any differently than a worldly authority figure who had the power of life or death over me, and respond accordingly.

If someone could prove the nonexistance of god to me, me response would be something like:

"Well, that's a relief."

Unfortunately I'd also becsome a very high suicide risk due to lack of fear of eternal reprecussions, were I to spiral back into depression.

((I'm not looking for a debate on any of that. Just stating my opinion.))

One thing I will say that I can to some extent "back," though, is that life would not become meaningless. It might have less or a different meaning if I was certain there was no god, but I would still meaning in my own life and in the lives of people I know.

Are you sure?

Seriously, while believing in doub,t as strongly as I do, does lead me into depression sometimes I still think its important lest I become just another psycho screaming atop a soap box like I know everything. Or another lemming falling in line blindly into a system that is designed to control and limit my potential. etcetera etcetera

I probably shouldn't be saying this out loud, but f**k it

No. I'm not really sure of anything. What I was thinking of was the utter paralysis of doubt. Certainty lends direction. Not knowing is sometimes worse that knowing a horrible truth. I hope that's worded better than my previous post.

f**k what? Is there no room in your mind for there to be an intelligent position between agnostic and religious fantatic? If I am certain of nothing else, it is that such a thing is possible.

If god was all-loving and forgiving id follow him. If he was just like the god in the bible i wouldnt follow him or respect him that much since he came across as a bit of a power-freak and a bully in the bible. Loving him is only possible from his compassion and my understanding of this, not out of fear of persecution. That's why i never liked the term 'god-fearing' people, as if it's a good thing. If fear is humanities saving grace then i want no part of it.

Last edited by eamonn on 13 Oct 2005, 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"f**k it" = "f**k caution" I was a bit tipsy at the time. Plus it sometimes seems that I am so cautious about what I say that I never say anything at all, so I have to just turn off my internal censor completely.



Hmmz0r. I suppose I have seen it happen occasionally. I guess I just don't see how its possible for me personally. When I tried to believe in religion when I was several years younger it made me vulnerable in ways that I do not ever want to be again. If you can pull it off successfully than I congratulate you.

As some of you probably realize, this is my favorite subject.
I think the problem for most people is one of definition.
What do we mean by a supreme "being" ? Is it some all powerful entity apart from this universe? Or maybe just the sum total of all "being"?
The latter is much easier.
Then there is the question, why should I be a good person and not completely self serving. There are many arguments for this that have nothing to do with "god"

I am ultimately indifferent to the question of "God" now.
Infinity is far more awe inspiring, and I could probably prove to you that it exists.

Go ahead and prove it then! Im not doing anything special right now anyway.

As others have said, it would make no difference to me. I'd be concerned for some others who are dependant.
Doubt and not knowing have become normal for me, (maybe because of late dx) and my ethics centre on people, so either way no change.

If God was proven to exist, I probably wouldn't do much differently. I try my best to live a moral life, but I think if I had to use a higher power to tell me how, it wouldn't be very sincere.

That sums up everything I see wrong with mainstream Christianity.

If fear is humanity's grace I shoudl be instantly sainted. Religion has the power to make me disgnosably clinically depressed. This is not to say I hate religion but to say that that perspective of religion (fear-based, or death-focused, as a nun told me my persepctive was when she told me to stay away from religion till I got my head screwed on right), can be horribly destructive.

I agree. Religion should never use negative reinforcement. It is far better, IMHO, to be 'God-trusting' than 'God-fearing'.

No such thing as absolute certainty. 400 years ago they were absolutley certain the world was flat.

Thats not true actually. Columbus discovered America about 500 years ago, and the idea that he was the one who proved that the world was round is a myth... A large percentage of intelligent, educated people at that time had seen evidence that the earth was round. So, its more like 1000 years ago that everyone was certain the Earth was flat

I, like Siddhartha , refuse to answer the question.
The point of my spiritual growth is not whether or not I believe what someone else does.
In fact, most of the time my aspergers causes me to be socially blind to a higher extent then others. The point, as I see it, is how I treat others, myself, and the world around me from one moment to the next.

From a Judeao/Christian perspective, I would highly recommend
As A Driven Leaf by Milton Steinberg

The story takes place during the Talmudic period.
A young rabbi rises to power, then loses his faith in G-d.
His friends try to help him.
One goes insane, another kills himself.
Only Rabbi Akiba remains unshaken.
Steinberg has Akiba state that his condition is due to the fact that what he ultimately cared about was what made society most just.

Steinberg writes a great piece of historical fiction from the Talmudic period.