QUESTION - Is the after-life really a logical concept.. ?

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09 Sep 2008, 6:04 pm

Is the after-life really a logical concept.. ?

Some ponderings….

If everything.. we see all around us.. can come out of nothing..

Then why shouldn't something.. even more remarkable.. arise out of all that which already exists.. ?

Could another level of a living phenomena.. arise out of this existing material universe.. ?

An evolution of a new stage of life.. that is immaterial.. without any physical substance whatsoever. A form of life that has thought forms as its substance.. instead of atoms.. ?

Is that possible.. ?

That the universe.. and the life within it.. comes out of nothing.. is unbelievable.

Even impossible.. we might say.

So what is possible.. really.. ?

Why shouldn't another.. higher.. metaphysical level.. arise.. to serve as a platform.. on which consciousness could continue to exist.. after physical death.. in order to sustain the evolution of life.. and to take it even further.. ?

A purely mental environment… constructed out of our memories.

Meaning.. all our memories.. throughout the entire history of the human race.

Maybe even memories of animals..

Or even alien memories.. of life on other planets.

That would provide a lot of material to create yet another level of existence out of.. wouldn't it..?

And the energy of construction.. would be imaginary.. meaning this would be a purely mental construct.. just as our dreams are.

We know that organic life reproduces itself continually as a species..

So why shouldn't life be able to reproduce itself.. as a purely mental image.. by drawing on its memories.. and thereby sustaining itself even further a field.. ?

What's stopping it.. ?

Maybe only our own lack of imagination.. and nothing more.

Consider this then..

This already happens to us.. in our dreams.

We know consciousness continually switches between.. the material world.. that we sense outside us.. the immaterial environment… that we experience within..

Such as.. thoughts.. feelings.. and dreams.. etc.

It seems.. what should be taken into consideration.. is that.. our consciousness has a polarity.. and both poles are very real.. and both have meaning.. and purpose.

Maybe dreams are just the first stirrings of our mental world.. as it struggles to be born inside us.. so that we might be free to cast off our physical garment.. and take on our real nature.. which is god-like.. compared to what we are now.

What is it that the symbol of the Sphinx represents.. with the head of a god.. and the body of a lion (the king of the beasts).. ?

Could this be who we are.. really then.. both human (the king of the beasts) - and god.. potentially.. in our minds (or spirits).. ?

Is this the Sphinx's mysterious secret.. ?

Our inner world then.. is possibly.. preparing us for such a metaphysical transition.. to a purely mental condition.. that we could take on.. when our body dies.

It would seem.. that in all probability.. the physical is only our temporary state.. and just as the caterpillar becomes a butterfly.. we will also undergo a dramatic metamorphosis.. given time.

Is that the purpose of our life.. ?

Taking these points – alone - into consideration... wouldn't a continuation of life.. seem more logical.. than not.. ?

When we observe all the variations of life on this planet.. and the seemingly hostile conditions that life can thrive under.. like extreme temperatures of hot and cold.. hibernation.. deep sea life forms that never see light.. etc.

We might well ask ourselves..

Have we discovered - ALL - of life's mysteries.. and its potentials.. ?

---------------------------------------

"That which the dream shows is the shadow of such wisdom as exists in man, even if during his waking state he may know nothing about it...

We do not know it because we are fooling away our time with outward and perishing things, and are asleep in regard to that which is real within ourself."

Philipus Aureolus Paracelsus

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Last edited by Accelerator on 09 Sep 2008, 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

iamnotaparakeet
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09 Sep 2008, 6:14 pm

Do you think that you are merely a biochemical computer with an
AI programmed by billions of supposed years of random events?

Phagocyte
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09 Sep 2008, 6:21 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Do you think that you are merely a biochemical computer with an
AI programmed by billions of supposed years of random events?

Do you really think that you materialized six thousand years ago at the whim of some unknowable, unprovable God?

Both sides are going out on a limb.

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iamnotaparakeet
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09 Sep 2008, 6:31 pm

Phagocyte wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Do you think that you are merely a biochemical computer with an
AI programmed by billions of supposed years of random events?

Do you really think that you materialized six thousand years ago at the whim of some unknowable, unprovable God?

Both sides are going out on a limb.

No, and that's not what Genesis or the rest of the Bible says anyway. 2008 years from Adam's beginning of life until Abraham's birth, making approximately 6000 years, yes. But the caricaturizations of Biblical doctrine aren't even close to what I accept.

greenblue
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09 Sep 2008, 6:35 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Do you think that you are merely a biochemical computer with an
AI programmed by billions of supposed years of random events?

By 'random events' you mean natural selection, right?

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iamnotaparakeet
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09 Sep 2008, 6:41 pm

greenblue wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Do you think that you are merely a biochemical computer with an
AI programmed by billions of supposed years of random events?

By 'random events' you mean natural selection, right?

Natural selection is less random than the mutations that would have occurred. It just ensures that the genome is optimized, but it by itself is not a biochemical/organic chemical engineer.

prometheuspann
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09 Sep 2008, 6:44 pm

my answer is that whether or not its logical, it is real, because i have been there, so for my own purposes, I know what happens
when a person dies. Its both a lot more scary and a lot more full of potential than most religions get into.

But the net effect of it comes back to the question; what are you?

if you are the neurons and such then that goes and thats it. But thats not what you are thats just where you are living and
more or less a place to be thats easy and safe compared to higher levels of reality which are certainly more problematic.

While living we are consciousness which is bound to a body and thus ego. Death releases us from ego and thrusts us into an entropic field of dreams where we can either make our own little bubble or fall prey to exotic parasites.

But consciousness continues on because it was always separate from the mere physical body.

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iamnotaparakeet
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09 Sep 2008, 7:00 pm

prometheuspann wrote:

But consciousness continues on because it was always separate from the mere physical body.

This I agree with. I think that we are not entities completely of this universe,
but that brains are, aside from their computational abilities, merely interfaces.

God is the Creator of us all and is superior to us, but we ourselves are not merely physical either.

That is my personal view.

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09 Sep 2008, 7:08 pm

prometheuspann wrote:

But consciousness continues on because it was always separate from the mere physical body.

well, it can be argued that consciousness as being the mind is not separate from the physical body, I mean, all our cognitive functions as well as perception are dependent on the body, without it, it couldn't work nor exist, in the biological sense. That seems to suggest that counscuousness or mind or soul, whatever people may call it, is related and interconnected to the body, (kinda like two things in one) if you disconect or destroy the body, then it will be gone. That would be the biological and naturalistic perspective I suppose.

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Accelerator
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09 Sep 2008, 7:31 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

This I agree with. I think that we are not entities completely of this universe, but that brains are, aside from their computational abilities, merely interfaces.

God is the Creator of us all and is superior to us, but we ourselves are not merely physical either.

That is my personal view.

Which can be backed up by a couple of extracts from Pierre Teilhard de Chardin's theory of - spiritual - evolution.

I see him.. as the "inner" Darwin.. :-)

-----

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience."

"Our duty, as men and women, is to proceed as if limits to our ability did not exist. We are collaborators in creation."

"Someday, after mastering the winds, the waves, the tides and gravity, we shall harness for God the energies of love, and then, for a second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire."

Extracts from the wisdom of.. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

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iamnotaparakeet
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09 Sep 2008, 7:43 pm

Accelerator wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

This I agree with. I think that we are not entities completely of this universe, but that brains are, aside from their computational abilities, merely interfaces.

God is the Creator of us all and is superior to us, but we ourselves are not merely physical either.

That is my personal view.

Which can be backed up by a couple of extracts from Pierre Teilhard de Chardin's theory of - spiritual - evolution.

I see him.. as the "inner" Darwin.. :-)

Quote:

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (IPA: [pjɛʀ tejaʀ də ʃaʀdɛ̃]; 1 May 1881, Orcines, France – 10 April 1955, New York City) was a French philosopher and Jesuit priest who trained as a paleontologist and geologist and took part in the discovery of Peking Man. Teilhard conceived the idea of the Omega Point and developed Vladimir Vernadsky's concept of Noosphere.

Teilhard's primary book, The Phenomenon of Man, set forth a sweeping account of the unfolding of the cosmos. He abandoned traditional interpretations of creation in the Book of Genesis in favor of a less strict interpretation. This displeased certain officials in the Roman Curia, who thought that it undermined the doctrine of original sin developed by Saint Augustine. Teilhard's position was opposed by his church superiors, and his work was denied publication during his lifetime by the Roman Holy Office.

Interesting guy, however, I'd still go for a more traditional approach to Genesis, such as that of James Ussher, if not just because books are seldom written to mean anything a reader wishes, then at least for the novelty of my date of birth being October 23rd.

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09 Sep 2008, 8:06 pm

Accelerator wrote:

yeah, which is why man is inventors.. we dream, and we are a dream, and every dream we have is a new painting.. we have imagination for a reason.. to create life. death is a very materialistic idea, but life is one of imagination.

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09 Sep 2008, 8:10 pm

Afterlife is possible, it is just not reductionist.

Accelerator
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09 Sep 2008, 8:21 pm

Another one of his sayings I really like is..

"We are one, after all, you and I. Together we suffer, together exist, and forever will recreate each other."

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

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09 Sep 2008, 9:35 pm

If the universe did not come from nothing, it came from something. There are no other alternatives. If people demand that it came from nothing by the magical command of an imaginary eternal being and other people claim it came from nothing by some sort of self generating series of events then we can choose which one is preferred. I've made my choice.

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09 Sep 2008, 9:37 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

greenblue wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Do you think that you are merely a biochemical computer with an
AI programmed by billions of supposed years of random events?

By 'random events' you mean natural selection, right?

Natural selection is less random than the mutations that would have occurred. It just ensures that the genome is optimized, but it by itself is not a biochemical/organic chemical engineer.

'Genetic algorithms'

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