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twoshots
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14 Jan 2009, 5:40 pm

Abangyarudo wrote:
Just to say one thing I do know for sure we are usually in a large amount of debt more then any other country so the whole "we have the best economy" is acutally wrong.

Interestingly, what you know for sure is not exactly true at all. As of last year, at the 27th highest total debt in the world (by the CIA's count as a percentage of GDP), the USA lags considerably behind many countries, including, Japan, Italy, Greece, Norway, Germany, Canada, and France. Although I reckon this situation may change quite soon (if we haven't already, I imagine we may soon surpass the latter 3), this still puts is a far cry from "more than any other country" as, e.g., Japan's total debt exceeds 170% of its GDP. If you look at the debt as a percentage of GDP (dotted line)
Image
we up until this most recent spree of stimuli and bailouts were not astronomically high yet. (not that I'm defending Washington's fiscal irresponsibility, but I think the USA debt situation may be a little out of proportion on most people's radar.)

Woohoo! I'm like the unofficial America cheerleader! GO US!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI[/youtube]


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v0lume
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14 Jan 2009, 5:42 pm

twoshots wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI[/youtube]


Lol I'm not gonna click on the vid but thats a B2 bomber right? What a joke they still havent figured out that if they make the doors open for the bombs to fall SIDEWAYS instead of downwards, they will continue to be untrackable by radars.



twoshots
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14 Jan 2009, 5:48 pm

^click the vid. I dare ya. ;) And no, that's an F117, which has already been decomissioned IIRC.

v0lume wrote:
twoshots wrote:
Well, I'm just not really sure where you're deriving your presumptions of superior knowledge from. Many people may be stacked unfairly against the Russians, but that doesn't exactly make Russia up to par with Western values and economic progress and whatnot. It isn't criticized without reason.

The fact is that I have studied the Russian people/government, talked to citizens personally over the internet and a few in real life. So yea, I know a "thing or two" about the subject.
You say that the US is better for having lower homicide rates? Give me a break! In just about each major city (particularly the ones riddled with gangs.. ie pretty much every city in the US (which is extremely dangerous), about 400-600+ people get murdered every year (for just one of the cities alone!). In other words, Russias streets are extremely peaceful in comparrison, with the exception of if your an immigrant who thinks he can become a Russian resident scotch free..

I pointed out murder rates as an example of crime simply because it is something I follow. A 20 murder average per 100K is worse than all but 9 of our large cities. It's a far cry from Detroit's 46, but it is certainly not a number to be taken lightly. Since the preponderance of the population isn't dealing with these kinds of high murder rates (as evidenced by the fact that the USA's average murder rate is below 6 murders per 100K) it isn't accurate to say we are comparable.

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I'll admit it's not safe to be an immigrant moving into Russia, but in the US, it's dangerous to be anything no matter what! You say the US has a lower homicide rate, I mean seriously, in every major city at least 2 people will be killed every day, now that is REALLY bad and we have no room to talk there.

See above.
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Ok, there might be lots of crime in Russia, there's a lot of crime here too! Even if they do have a bit more, in general a large quantity of the people are better than your average US citizen imo. They aren't arrogent, most of them keep their old spiritual culture alive, and are extremely friendly. I mean, I'm an aspie and I've been able to keep online Russian friends for longer than anyone else from anywhere else. That says a lot to me concidering how many people I've contacted.

Well, if you're trying to say Americans have sh***y manners, I'm all with ya. Although my dealings online indicate that the Western world in general are a pretty intolerable lot.

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Plus I'll say again, with all that stuff aside, my point was is that their military advances are better.

I'd be interested to see a citation for that one. Russia is the biggest player in the international arms trade, but I was under the impression that was due to the fact that they were vastly more affordable than the USA's overengineered (and, one would assume, ergo technologically more advanced) stuff.


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v0lume
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14 Jan 2009, 5:58 pm

Oh yea and I forgot to mention for the millionth time that their (current) government is better too, hands down. Argue about that one all you like, I will always be able to defend it.
Look back on my other post about their scientific advances (being the first to put things/humans in space-SUCCESSFULLY). A lot of the time the west has to copy their advances to get it right.
Also, the Russian military is NOT behind exports of weapons, basically all countries in existance have illegal weapons trade, its just the way the world is.
In their military/airforce, they have come up with better weapons and better aircraft. Google some examples of just one craft next to the other and you will see. It's SO easy to see the difference. I've seen some examples on youtube before as well.

I had my mind on other things to say but right now I just got a surge of an overwhelming feeling so I will have to calm down for a few moments lol.



twoshots
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14 Jan 2009, 6:09 pm

v0lume wrote:
In their military/airforce, they have come up with better weapons and better aircraft. Google some examples of just one craft next to the other and you will see. It's SO easy to see the difference.

Easier than seeing the difference between a B2 and an F117 I hope.


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v0lume
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14 Jan 2009, 6:13 pm

twoshots wrote:
v0lume wrote:
In their military/airforce, they have come up with better weapons and better aircraft. Google some examples of just one craft next to the other and you will see. It's SO easy to see the difference.

Easier than seeing the difference between a B2 and an F117 I hope.


From looking at it from the side with that little picture even you have to admit it looks similar. No more semantics please..

Also, their school systems are elite and ours are embarrassing in comparrison.



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14 Jan 2009, 9:08 pm

Nothing because it is what it is in the end.


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techstepgenr8tion
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14 Jan 2009, 9:19 pm

The world as a whole doesn't hate America, the world's left hates America.



Abangyarudo
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14 Jan 2009, 10:08 pm

twoshots wrote:
Abangyarudo wrote:
Just to say one thing I do know for sure we are usually in a large amount of debt more then any other country so the whole "we have the best economy" is acutally wrong.

Interestingly, what you know for sure is not exactly true at all. As of last year, at the 27th highest total debt in the world (by the CIA's count as a percentage of GDP), the USA lags considerably behind many countries, including, Japan, Italy, Greece, Norway, Germany, Canada, and France. Although I reckon this situation may change quite soon (if we haven't already, I imagine we may soon surpass the latter 3), this still puts is a far cry from "more than any other country" as, e.g., Japan's total debt exceeds 170% of its GDP. If you look at the debt as a percentage of GDP (dotted line)
Image
we up until this most recent spree of stimuli and bailouts were not astronomically high yet. (not that I'm defending Washington's fiscal irresponsibility, but I think the USA debt situation may be a little out of proportion on most people's radar.)

Woohoo! I'm like the unofficial America cheerleader! GO US!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI[/youtube]


If I am wrong which might be the case it wouldn't be proved by a CIA graph which is from a biased party.



twoshots
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14 Jan 2009, 10:25 pm

The CIA World Factbook is a fairly respectable publication, not a propaganda piece. And the graph doesn't even come from the CIA, for God's sake. The fact that the USA's government is not the most indebted in the world is pretty much common knowledge.


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14 Jan 2009, 10:45 pm

twoshots wrote:
The CIA World Factbook is a fairly respectable publication, not a propaganda piece. And the graph doesn't even come from the CIA, for God's sake. The fact that the USA's government is not the most indebted in the world is pretty much common knowledge.


the question is of the economy. Are we number one? no we owe alot of money if you minus debt from our economy it puts other countries in the lead. Anything could be a propaganda piece and everything has a certain bias to it. Hence if something comes from an organization like the CIA who has a vested interest in the US then its fair to assume that it could be incorrect or only taking into account factors that show america in the most positive light.



twoshots
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14 Jan 2009, 11:04 pm

Abangyarudo wrote:
twoshots wrote:
The CIA World Factbook is a fairly respectable publication, not a propaganda piece. And the graph doesn't even come from the CIA, for God's sake. The fact that the USA's government is not the most indebted in the world is pretty much common knowledge.


the question is of the economy. Are we number one? no we owe alot of money if you minus debt from our economy it puts other countries in the lead.

Which ones you have in mind? The US accounts for something like a quarter of the worlds GDP (around 4 times China's). I'd be interested to see what calculation puts other countries ahead and some support of why that calculation makes sense in the first place. I mean, let's suppose just for the hell of it I chopped the entire debt out the US economy and we compared it with everyone else that way. Let's take a (at this point perhaps conservative) estimate of debt = .7*GDP => GDP' = .3*GDP = over 4 trillion. That's still bigger than anyone's economy but Japan's (who, I remind you, has a debt well over 100% GDP).

I mean, there's all this nonsense among citizens of the USA where somehow if the USA isn't some diaphanous "number 1" it is automatically teh suxorz. One strains to imagine a people so thoroughly demoralized at the thought that they can't give the world surprise buttsex at a whim anymore.

Now, you want ballooning debt? Give it a year. Then we'll have lots to laugh about (2008 appears to have broken the 70% mark for debt).
Quote:
Anything could be a propaganda piece and everything has a certain bias to it. Hence if something comes from an organization like the CIA who has a vested interest in the US then its fair to assume that it could be incorrect or only taking into account factors that show america in the most positive light.

Fab. Produce some contrary data from a more reputable source and we'll have something to work on as opposed to the enormous quantities of truthiness pertaining to the US' debt circulating around.


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Abangyarudo
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14 Jan 2009, 11:19 pm

twoshots wrote:
Abangyarudo wrote:
twoshots wrote:
The CIA World Factbook is a fairly respectable publication, not a propaganda piece. And the graph doesn't even come from the CIA, for God's sake. The fact that the USA's government is not the most indebted in the world is pretty much common knowledge.


the question is of the economy. Are we number one? no we owe alot of money if you minus debt from our economy it puts other countries in the lead.

Which ones you have in mind? The US accounts for something like a quarter of the worlds GDP (around 4 times China's). I'd be interested to see what calculation puts other countries ahead and some support of why that calculation makes sense in the first place. I mean, let's suppose just for the hell of it I chopped the entire debt out the US economy and we compared it with everyone else that way. Let's take a (at this point perhaps conservative) estimate of debt = .7*GDP => GDP' = .3*GDP = over 4 trillion. That's still bigger than anyone's economy but Japan's (who, I remind you, has a debt well over 100% GDP).

I mean, there's all this nonsense among citizens of the USA where somehow if the USA isn't some diaphanous "number 1" it is automatically teh suxorz. One strains to imagine a people so thoroughly demoralized at the thought that they can't give the world surprise buttsex at a whim anymore.

Now, you want ballooning debt? Give it a year. Then we'll have lots to laugh about (2008 appears to have broken the 70% mark for debt).
Quote:
Anything could be a propaganda piece and everything has a certain bias to it. Hence if something comes from an organization like the CIA who has a vested interest in the US then its fair to assume that it could be incorrect or only taking into account factors that show america in the most positive light.

Fab. Produce some contrary data from a more reputable source and we'll have something to work on as opposed to the enormous quantities of truthiness pertaining to the US' debt circulating around.


no not quite its just our image of our standing in the world we don't have a clear view of and propaganda. Japan is not as bad as you think they just been playing america for awhile. They have no intention of paying us back. Hence why americans don't understand why other countries don't see them as they see themselves. Not to mention soon we'll be even futher in debt (Economic Stimulus plan & Bailout of Auto Dealers). Why do you think Tony Blair was outcasted due to his affiliation with America.



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14 Jan 2009, 11:23 pm

For the record, at $17.4 billion the auto bailout is but a drop in the TARP bucket.


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kevv729
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14 Jan 2009, 11:35 pm

You All need to know something no matter what You say it is America.

You can hate All You want it it will solve nothing at All.

Just want to make sure All understand that in the end.


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ignisfatuus
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20 Jan 2009, 5:01 am

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Generally though, Americans are too conservative to me. That is why I like Canada a lot more, it seems so much more progressive and liberal.


Uh no, not by a long shot. Canada is actually a very homogeneous society despite our government's claim of a multicultural mosaic (which is an impossible concept in the way it is implemented here, but I won't get into that right now) and though we seem to tolerate a lot more, it's just that, toleration not acceptance. The U.S., for all it's religious leanings, has wild extremes of every stripe that just wouldn't thrive in Canada.


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