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skafather84
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05 Dec 2008, 1:56 pm

Legalize pot.

I bring this up today on the 75th anniversary that alcohol prohibition was repealed.

It would create jobs, a new diverse plant for farmers and researchers to fully work with and explore (as opposed to the extremely limited availability for scientific research). It would create a new stream of tax dollars coming in and possibly invite tourism. Could decrease crime by making less criminals and taking business away from the black market and into legitimate markets. This reduction in crime would also mean a reduction in government costs.

Sounds like a good idea at a very quick first glance.


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skafather84
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05 Dec 2008, 2:28 pm

and beyond casual use, there's a lot of potential for other uses such as fibers, paper, and the oil from the seeds (i've heard they're edible and good to eat as well as the potential to use the oil the same way many cars use vegetable oil).


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notbrianna
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05 Dec 2008, 2:54 pm

sounds good to me.



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05 Dec 2008, 5:04 pm

I'm in favor of legalizing pot, though I am personally opposed to its use. I doubt it would be such a miracle that it would cure our recession, though. For that, we just need to ride it out.


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skafather84
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05 Dec 2008, 5:28 pm

Orwell wrote:
I'm in favor of legalizing pot, though I am personally opposed to its use. I doubt it would be such a miracle that it would cure our recession, though. For that, we just need to ride it out.


the amount of debt that the economy has accrued certainly wouldn't be fixed simply with its legalization, but i think it could be a good economy to add into the mix and would possibly pad all those job losses and lost revenues....definitely not an endgame fix.


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sartresue
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05 Dec 2008, 9:03 pm

Pot in every chicken joint topic

The Trailer Park Boys would not be as funny, you know!

You can be impaired on pot and it will affect the ability to drive and operate machinery. Next, people will want other stuff legalized. Besides the legal use of pot will not diminsih the use of crack, meth and other drugs, that will continue to rise, expecially because of the downturn in the economy. There is a correlation between drug use and poverty, though this is not the case with me (I do not use any drugs, alcohol or tobacco).

I am in favour of growing more hemp, rather than pot. I have consumed foodstuffs made with hemp and there is no CNS effect but they tasted good.


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skafather84
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05 Dec 2008, 9:40 pm

sartresue wrote:
There is a correlation between drug use and poverty, though this is not the case with me



correlation does not equal causation.

as far as your other claims. you've obviously never done any drugs.


and what's wrong with legalizing other stuff? obviously making it illegal has only exacerbated the problems that drive people to drugs in the first place.


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06 Dec 2008, 12:32 am

Orwell wrote:
I'm in favor of legalizing pot, though I am personally opposed to its use. I doubt it would be such a miracle that it would cure our recession, though. For that, we just need to ride it out.


I am vehemently in favor of legalizing pot. At the BARE MINIMUM it should be decriminalized nationally ASAP. But Orwell is correct that doing so will not provide any sort of economic miracle that will lift the US out of the current recession. Riding it out on the other hand is FAR too risky given the severity of it and might lead to a full blown depression.



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06 Dec 2008, 1:21 am

I also agree it would not do much for the national economy, but I do wonder what effect it would have on the local level. Tax dollars would not be spent putting all of those people through the court system and jail. I am not sure how much of a money making industry it would be, because the only reason there is a lot of money in it now is due to the risk involved. I think it would be hard to make money off of it if it were legal. But I do think it would help the local economy if money was not spent fighting it.



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06 Dec 2008, 2:58 am

Full legalization of pot might be on the ballot here in Oregon in 2010. I may vote for it, just because Oregon's kind of poor, so we could use the tax revenue (especially since we recently passed Measure 57 which will build more prisons which requires $$$).
But as Orwell said, there's no magic way out of this recession. It'd help soften the blow a bit, but as it stands, we're in for the long haul. 533,000 jobs were lost this month (my mother being one of those 533,000), and they say it's going to keep accelerating. My guess will be about 900K - 975K job losses for December.
Just wait until the inflation from all of these BAILOUTS kicks in. Then it'll get really bad.



Tim_Tex
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06 Dec 2008, 10:39 am

Although I don't smoke pot, or use any other drug, I think that some government entities will be so desperate for cash revenue that they will consider it.

Probably not anywhere in Texas, though. We're conservative as hell, and we're one of only 6 states where the economy is still expanding (New Mexico, Colorado, Montana, Massachusetts, and New Hampshire were the others).


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06 Dec 2008, 1:56 pm

Legalizing pot would not end criminal transactions, or stop prosecutions.

After all, if it were legalised it would be taxed. As with all taxed goods, people would resent paying that tax for something that used to be untaxed. Inevitably some would avoid that tax by growing their own, and subsequently would be greeted with prosecution for illegal untaxed growing. Anyone caught selling the untaxed variant would be liable for prosecution etc etc.

Consider cigarettes, and what occurs with them.


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techstepgenr8tion
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06 Dec 2008, 2:02 pm

Ben Stein has this crazy idea to just have the fed print more money, stemming from the idea that we're going through rapid enough deflation that the idea is viable. That's really balls-to-the-metal though and I think that the 'what ifs' surrounding the fed's ability to re-restrict the monetary supply as the world economy came out of its recession would be too much.

As for legalizing marijuana, I myself think its a better thing to have legal than alcohol and yes - I would be all for it. The odds of taboos coming off that fast though, practically nill. Maybe I just haven't seen the research that actually proves it to be dangerous, any source I've ever seen says otherwise and I've never heard any rational arguments against aside from the philosophical that anything that numbs one to life in any degree is a sacrilege (which, common alcohol? Its a flimsy idea at that, like gun-ownership its probably far healthier in the hands of an upright citizen than the hands of a criminal and the lack-luster effect on societal norms that people on the other side of the argument predict, IMO, are kinda rubbish).



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06 Dec 2008, 2:05 pm

Macbeth wrote:
Legalizing pot would not end criminal transactions, or stop prosecutions.

After all, if it were legalised it would be taxed. As with all taxed goods, people would resent paying that tax for something that used to be untaxed. Inevitably some would avoid that tax by growing their own, and subsequently would be greeted with prosecution for illegal untaxed growing. Anyone caught selling the untaxed variant would be liable for prosecution etc etc.

Consider cigarettes, and what occurs with them.


That's the problem in a nutshell though isn't it? They wouldn't be able to put 200% tax rates on it like they do tobacco because unlike tobacco they do not control the only means of production.

I think rather than trying to prosecute all the people growing their own and selling it (most people I know would just give it away if they could legally grow it) they would be forced to place reasonable tax rates on it instead of trying to price it out business due to certain fundamentalist groups wanting to force their morality onto others using the legal system and government.

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Ben Stein has this crazy idea to just have the fed print more money, stemming from the idea that we're going through rapid enough deflation that the idea is viable. That's really balls-to-the-metal though and I think that the 'what ifs' surrounding the fed's ability to re-restrict the monetary supply as the world economy came out of its recession would be too much.


Several African governments tried printing money to spend instead of to replace damaged currency in circulation. They ended up dependent on it as a source of income otherwise their economy would destabilize as the currency in circulation became devalued by the printing of more they had to print at a faster and faster rate to keep things going leading to exponentially increasing inflation that crushed their economy and they ended up with money less valuable than the paper it was printed on.


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Last edited by Fraya on 06 Dec 2008, 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

techstepgenr8tion
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06 Dec 2008, 2:08 pm

Fraya wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Legalizing pot would not end criminal transactions, or stop prosecutions.

After all, if it were legalised it would be taxed. As with all taxed goods, people would resent paying that tax for something that used to be untaxed. Inevitably some would avoid that tax by growing their own, and subsequently would be greeted with prosecution for illegal untaxed growing. Anyone caught selling the untaxed variant would be liable for prosecution etc etc.

Consider cigarettes, and what occurs with them.


That's the problem in a nutshell though isn't it? They wouldn't be able to put 200% tax rates on it like they do tobacco because unlike tobacco they do not control the only means of production.

I think rather than trying to prosecute all the people growing their own and selling it (most people I know would just give it away if they could legally grow it) they would be forced to place reasonable tax rates on it instead of trying to price it out business due to certain fundamentalist groups wanting to force their morality onto others using the legal system and government.


What's really funny about this, as a side note, the state of Tennessee offers dealers and growers the option to buy stamps which effectively pay taxes on their crop. Supposedly there have been hundreds of individuals who have done this and no arrests stemmed from it.

As far as the U.S. sin-taxing the hell out of it though, I still can't imagine those taxes climbing up to $30 an eighth; if they did I think they realize exactly what they'd be encouraging as well - no change in the current situation.



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06 Dec 2008, 2:38 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Fraya wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Legalizing pot would not end criminal transactions, or stop prosecutions.

After all, if it were legalised it would be taxed. As with all taxed goods, people would resent paying that tax for something that used to be untaxed. Inevitably some would avoid that tax by growing their own, and subsequently would be greeted with prosecution for illegal untaxed growing. Anyone caught selling the untaxed variant would be liable for prosecution etc etc.

Consider cigarettes, and what occurs with them.


That's the problem in a nutshell though isn't it? They wouldn't be able to put 200% tax rates on it like they do tobacco because unlike tobacco they do not control the only means of production.

I think rather than trying to prosecute all the people growing their own and selling it (most people I know would just give it away if they could legally grow it) they would be forced to place reasonable tax rates on it instead of trying to price it out business due to certain fundamentalist groups wanting to force their morality onto others using the legal system and government.


What's really funny about this, as a side note, the state of Tennessee offers dealers and growers the option to buy stamps which effectively pay taxes on their crop. Supposedly there have been hundreds of individuals who have done this and no arrests stemmed from it.

As far as the U.S. sin-taxing the hell out of it though, I still can't imagine those taxes climbing up to $30 an eighth; if they did I think they realize exactly what they'd be encouraging as well - no change in the current situation.


Mayhaps the US gov is wiser, but it certainly never stopped my government from taxing the ass out of things as a pure revenue-raiser. Cigarettes and alcohol are going mental in price, and the amount that you can buy and bring in from Europe is dwindling rapidly.

Consider.. does the US government stand to gain or lose by de-criminalising pot? Would the departments relevant wish to see their jobs go, and their budgets cut etc?


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