*Feminism IS Population Control*

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LOL, yeah, I am linguistically inflexible.

This topic has taken more turns that a country road...

I don't see a problem with birth control as a concept. If a woman wants a certain number of children, that should be her right. I don't think that overpopulation is nearly as bad as it was in the 60s; as more women have had access to contraception, the birth rate has dropped accordingly. 40 years ago, people thought the world population would just get out of hand, enveloping the Earth's surface, and that it was the underlying cause of all the world's problems.

Any 'soft science' or discipline undergoes substantial shifts over time. A hundred years ago, sociologists could scientifically 'prove ' that there were hundreds of races on the planet (and that the Anglo Saxon race was the highest and most superior one.

Psychiatrists would tell you that women envied a mans' (well, as Freud said 'what do women want'?...

And doctors actually used 'marital aids' on women to relief anxiety and stress (kid you not).

So I think that what we call Feminism will probably go by other names; and a hundred years from now, people will look back on what we're saying here and wonder...


"what were they thinking!!?"...

I guess for me I only go by the defintion of what femenism is which is equal rights for women. This probably goes 100 years back and then there's probably generations when it was a woman't main duty to marry and stay at home. Not all women IMO can live up to that not even straight women such as myself.

I could see modern femenism movements annoying the crap outta people especially men if it's playing femenist cards like race cards....

This thread is a bit misleading since I don't exactly know what femenism we're talking about here. Seems to be all kinds but some of those kinds could be debated to whether or not they're femenist when a woman has an oposing opinion of her own from a man or a woman's. That's when I tend to see the word femenist used against that.

For instance if I didn't agree with any men here, I would rightly call them misogynists....yet so far I have not...not even since I've been here. So I have to ask what that definition of femenism means to each person when we use the term femenist.

On a personal note, maybe I'd be considered femenist only that I'd be pissed if I couldn't vote or get a chance at politics only because of my gender.

Anyway, it's the PPR Forum so no one's going to agree on everything not even women surprise surprise!! !

How can you say that humans resemble bonobos more in terms of sexuality? Do you realize how many taboos we have placed on sexuality.
Jeez, I put up a tame picture of me in a one piece teddy and half the people get their undies in a bungee.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf84834-0-75.html

If we were like bonobos we'd be laughing and taking off our clothes. I realize that we are not exactly like either one, but I'm trying to make a proper analogy. Can you try to understand?

I think its totally SEXIST to assume that women dont want sex as much as men do. Talking to numerous actualy women it appears to be the Complete Opposite[HEADS UP, Ouinon ] What IS true is that women want to be able to enjoy sex without the burden of pregnancy every time! I honestly think this is a BIG PART of modern feminism.

What women are you talking to haliphron? Most women I know don't like sex. When I was younger, I noticed that girls pretended to like sex. But that was mostly an act to tease guys and to make themselves appear more desirable. I don't think it is sexist to say that men enjoy sex more than women do (for the most part). In fact, most women despise women who enjoy sex as much as men do and men are suspicious of women who are open about their strong sexuality.

If we were more like bonobos (matriarchal) sexually, we could transform the world and make it a more peaceful place.
It would be true feminism, not this competitive crap.

...

Last edited by claire-333 on 24 Dec 2008, 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

What I said is that most women want sex too, I never said anything about how much they like sex compared to men.
The women Im talking about are women from their late teens to mid-30s. I AM aware that sex isnt as much fun for women as it is for men because it takes more work for many women to achieve an orgasm. I think that women despite women who enjoy sex as much as men do because of jealousy.I see a lot of negativity here towards sex from many women here on WP and it makes me wonder if them having AS has something to do with it. There ARE mental abnormalities that cause women afflicted by them to have sex drives even stronger than most men-like (manic-depressive)bipolar women for instance.

Yes, I agree. I've read that female aspies have stronger sex drives. I think it is because we have more of a male brain. I always felt like a guy in a girls body, albeit a gay guy.

It has nothing to do with marriage. Actually bonbos have loose association groups (referred to as 'fission fusion groups'), they meet up periodically and splinter into smaller units, different to the units that they arrived in. Common chimps are more territorially aggressive, they actually patrol their range's boundaries looking out for interlopers, and they physically attack those that they find.
Maybe you are meeting up with the wrong women.

Most humans cook their meat first. Our biology is better able to process cooked meat, so it's clear we've been doing that for a very long time. Next time you see a common chimp in its natural habitat, wearing a 'kiss the cook' BBQ apron, let me know.



Half the people? But none the of the common chimps. Do you think chimps care whether you wear a teddy or go naked? I do not think that they do.

I'm certainly laughing, what makes you believe I am not also removing my clothe?. Perhaps you imagine a common chimp is standing over me, shaking his or her head and commenting on taboos related to teddies. If so, you imagine incorrectly.

I understand that in stating humans are not more like bonobos in sexual behaviors, than they are like common chimps, you are quite simply wrong. I understand you wanted to study anthropology, but I wonder if you understand that if you had actually studied anthropology you would understand that not all similarities and differences are of equal significance or importance when making cross-species comparisons.

For instance that sex is used for more purposes than reproduction is highly significant because of the potential implications such a difference gives rise to. Equally whether or not one male dominates the reproductive potential of a harem of females or whether other males get a look in is a crucial importance in the area of sexual behavior. Generally what one had for dinner is not of any particular significance in cross-species comparison in the area of sex and sexual behavior; one of the few exceptions would be when one traded or used sex to gain possession of their dinner. Something evidently never documented as happening among common chimps, whereas for humans and bonobos, it's apparently somewhat more common.

Matriarchal means females in charge, a few pages back you were informing us all that female bonobos simply submit to the males. That is not a matriarchy. So are the bonobo females universally submitting to males, or they are managing their matriarchal domain?

As for the general discussion about females liking sex, I think the atypically large (for body size/weight) penis of the human male indicates at least one of the areas on which our females ancestresses exercised selective force on the male of our kind. I'm guessing it's because they liked it.

*sigh*
pandd, I don't even know where to begin...

I'll just stick to one piece of your argument.

Bonobos are matriarchal. Common chimps are patriarchal. Bonobos have sex with all males and females in the group at any time except during pregnancy and while nursing. Common chimps have sex when they are fertile. They are highly selective. They mostly have sex with the alpha male but often they will sneak away with a high ranking male. It has also been reported that two chimps (not the alpha) will disappear from the group for an extended period of time as if they were in a courtship.

Human females typically are selective in choosing a mate. They do not have sex with any man or women just to pass the time and appease one another the way bonobos do. Also, most human females I know don't enjoy sex and make up excuses not to have it unless they want to get pregnant.

It appears as if you are placing some kind of judgment on the statement "submitting to males" as if it is a bad thing. Bonobos do submit themselves to males sexually. Females don't act dominant and powerful even though it is considered a matriarchal "society". Looking at them it appears as if they are managing their domain as you put it, but when I ask that we do the same for the sake of peace and harmony you get all defensive and say there is no way you would lower yourself like that.

pandd, no offense but I am not going to argue with you anymore. Chopping up peoples words is not clever and it's apparent that you do so in order to manipulate the conversation. Please don't ever take my quotes out of context again.

I've made no comment about whether it is good or bad. The word submit means to surrender for or to the control of others. One who is submitting is not in control, but is yielding control, so if female bonobos are as you describe, constantly submitting, this does not describe a matriarchal arrangement.
Where have I said there is no way I would lower myself like that anywhere in this thread? As for peace and harmony, you may not have noticed, but human males tend in many human societies to exhibit a degree of sexual jealousy such as if you have a plan to bring universal peace to humanity by instigating universal 'free love' it is unlikely to have the desired result. It did not work out for the hippies, or universal peace and harmony rather than 'selling out to the establishment' would have followed on from the 60's.


What complete and utter bollocks. The moderators themselves have indicated that posters are not to re-quote more than is necessary. I've already told you, nothing you can say about my motivations will convince me that you know them better than I do. I'm not in the least offended if you choose to cease flagellating your horse's carcass.

That sounds like something Tigger would say.

I'm not all that familiar with 'Winnie the Pooh' characters, although interestingly I believe my best friend's favorite 'Winnie the Pooh' character is Tigger.

Tigger and Winnie the Pooh are very wise.

Good point!



pandd is impressively eloquent.



Wow, what belittling portrayals of feminists... I wonder why these definitions of "feminist" don't appear in Wikipedia?



LOL. Correlation does not imply causation. You have such intense analysis of the subject but then base proof of your thought on the "correlation=causation" fallacy.