Hitchens' Morality Challenge

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Name a moral action taken or a moral statement made by a religious believer, that COULDN'T'VE been made by a non-believer.

Now...

Name an immoral statement made or an immoral action taken that could only be religiously motivated.



In debates, the first has never been answered, but the second... you've already thought of an answer!!

You don't get a soul if you don't get Bliss from first hand experience of love for your creator.

Praising God.

Oh snap!

If the god is a god of murder, is it morally good to praise him?

God, as Woody Allen noted, is an underachiever. Don't blame the poor idiot for biting off more than He could chew.

Actually, I haven't heard of an answer for the second. Care to elaborate?

As to the first, the religious do tend to be more charitable than the non-religious. You can argue that if you want, but the numbers back me so you'd be wasting your time.

dying for a religious belief
-that was easy



depends on the religion. Usually it is because an interpretation has been twisted by a person to fit what they want to believe anyway.

hmmm... maybe I am on to something... people are responsible for all the evils of the world.

Down With People!! !! !!

oddly enough... many religious people are also more willing to die for people they do not know. And less likely to preserve the life of a loved one over multiple lives.

I think it has to do with the heaven thing.

The question was what would be possible or impossible, not about probabilities.

Do you remember which country the numbers you refer to came from? It matters because in the USA non-believers, the most distrusted group, are more likely to suffer from social exclusion. I would find it plausible if social exclusion would correlate with being less charitable. I don't have relevant data, but before I draw conclusions about whether religion makes people more charitable I would want those data, and then see what explains variations in charitable giving.


How about an inquisitor torturing a confession out of someone in the genuine belief that this will save the victim's soul? That example depends on accepting that an inquisitor could believe this. Do you think that is possible?


Why is that a moral action? Who benefits, and how, and does that benefit depend on someone dying for a religious belief, or would the same benefit be possible if someone died for a non-religious belief?

Virtues themselves: justice, fairness, generosity, charity, just to name a few.

Those actions could be taken by atheists but what I think we and Christopher Hitchens are missing is that there really are no 'real' atheists; rather Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, who kept all their ancestors values but pitched the religion part.

So, the illusion of the day is, that these values actually make any sense if our race, our planet, our existence, is a sheer accident.



That's tricky, can't even rule out holy war or persecution for heresy.

Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 30 Dec 2008, 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Christopher Hitchens has a vested interest in keeping his name in the public eye, otherwise he'd be yet another faded journo, so (this is the guy who wrote the mother Teresa diatribe? and used to write for Vanity Fair and any number of other 'cool' publications) who cares? let him rot.

Hitchens attacked Mother Teresa in his writings because he is jealous of her beatific status and wants to be loved and admired like she is. He hoped to make himself appear more noble in the process, but in my eyes he failed miserably. You want to be loved, Chris? Become a better man. Be less douchey.

I somewhat highly doubt Hitchens is jealous of Mother Teresa.

What I've read of Hitchens seems to me very well considered and well substantiated with fact. Of course, rabid believers dislike him intensely because he makes such reasonable sense.

slowmutant wrote:

hahaha, I learned a new word...

Hitchens disproves the religious fundamentalism. Wow. What a genius that took.

Hitchens is saying, "Don't love her-- love me!"

It's less about making rational sense and more about committing character assassination .. of Mother Teresa, of all people. Why not pick on someone who is at least alive and able to defend themselves, Chris?

Douche douche douchey douche-bag.

The fact that he is a stuffy British academian is hardly suprising.