Atheism vs. Neo-Marxism

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Ok, I had a shpeal laid out and several paragraphs written but I think I should really just rewind, get the conversation started first, and see where it leads rather than drop my own hypothesis right off the top.

My question is this - is anyone else thinking that there is a logical chasm between traditional atheists and those who've come to atheism or hold their atheist views as a vehicle of marxism?

Also, do you think that there are far more marxism-induced atheists in the western world today than there are traditional atheists?

I think this topic is extremely important one because, IMO, its a huge current behind the scenes and - ok, I'll give at least one part of my own thoughts on this - it's had a lot to do with profoundly dumbing down and polluting the debate of ultimate issues (let alone politics) and has likely held equal with religious fundamentalism in terms keeping the intellectual ceiling of the debate in this country and many others; very low.

I think there were more Marxist or neo-Marxist atheists from the 1960s through the early 1990s.

Yes, typical atheists are usually just secular rationalists who use conventional societal epistemologies with a leaning towards rationalist or empiricist approaches and have conventional societal worldviews although usually leaning socially liberal. Marxists however, base their epistemologies on Marx influenced works, and have a Marxian viewpoint, which is on a far extreme that other atheists do not reach.

I think that regular atheists are more common than Marxians today.

With God, all things are possible.
Without God, all things are permissable...

with regard to empiricism. Marxism by its very nature is empiricist, Karl Marx theorised on the nature of capital and the likely consequences of capitalism, this theory has been supported time and again using empirical data. With regard to Marxism and Atheism I personally do not see a non belief in God to be fundamental to the principles of Marxism. So I regard non non believing Marxists to be atheists with a particular political agenda.

No I do not think there are more atheists with a Marxist agenda than not, unfortunately there are not many Marxists around at the moment

Umm.. I'm sorry, which theory? *Admittedly* I'm not to savvy on the economics, but my impression is that Marx' economical theories aren't held in very high regard by mainstream economists (e.g. the labor theory of value).

Well he should be, it can be argued that he predicted the great depression and todays financial meltdown. He saw the fundamental problems associated with capitalism.

There is a very good essay on this issue titled 'The World Economic Crisis: A Marxist Analysis' at http://www.wsws.org or I can pm it to you if you are interested. Even if you do not agree with Marxism it gives a good analysis of the present crisis.

Marxists deny the the principle of identity as Aristotle understood it. Their "logic" is heavily influenced by the Hegelian dialectic. Most atheists simple do not believe in the existence of God or the gods. They use ordinary logic to ground their thinking. Marxists deny -religion- because of their theory of class power and structure. To Marxists religion is an instrument which the owning class uses to abuse and tyrannize the Proles. Religion is the Opiate of the People.

ruveyn

Well, to be honest, it is more often argued that he didn't predict any of these things, and that the problems of capitalism are different than anything he predicted.

I'll try to read the paper later, when I am not quite as tired.