11 points about Israel,Lebanon and Palestinians

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Hamas' birth is a reaction to Israeli policies.

Yes that is true. Several successive Israeli governments believed that splinter groups that have lead onto Hamas would embarrass the PLO, and then somehow it would all end there. Now it is much more religion than culture based extreme situation and they act as if that was a great surprise. Just like they knew that gaza was a pressure cooker, yet they allowed the cease fire to expire by 2 days. There are those the Israeli government would much rather have an enemy that doesn't want them to exist (and the feeling is mutual if they are honest) than one that is trying to find way of living along side, and deal with the refugee problem. That is because they don't have to live in these conditions, and they know full well they live at the others expense. The similarities with the ghettos and grand apartheid hold true. It is even better than that as they can control nearly everything from outside.

Have you noticed there is never an argument for the settlers? I not heard anyone giving me a good reason why they should be there at all. It is always something that is brushed under the carpet even though the UN resolution says there should not be there.

#17 and #18 topic

Israeli policies are a reaction to hamas' birth.

The Israelis should never have "tolerated" Hamas as an alternative to Fatah/PLO, but of course hindsight is 20/20 vision.

Better the devil you know, as my Irish ancestors would have said.

Screw Israel. Sure the Islamic terrorists are bad but Jizzrael is a genocidal death country. I had Judaism forced on me as a kid and I wish I could take back every cent I was tricked into giving towards tzedakah (Israeli charity). 3 times as many Palestinians are killed than Israelis. Most Israelis that are killed are soldiers. Most Palestinians killed are civilians. I hate the Pissraeli government almost as much as I hate the Saudi government. We are only friends with the Saudis for the oil. We are only friends with the Israelis for control in the middle east.

Still waiting for an arguement for the settlers.

It's the oldest argument of them all: this is the "land without a people" waiting empty for the return of "the people without a land." Of course, that argument only works if you don't consider the Palestinians to be people.

Yep thats a good one to justify genocide, they used it here. Australia was legally declared Terra Nullius (empty land) the Aboriginals were classed as part of the natural fauna

Wrong. Hamas' birth is a reaction to Israels existence.

ruveyn

That can't possibly be because Hams puts their offensive locations, leaders, etc in civilian locations can it? Hamas does it intentionally to increase civilian deaths in an attempt to gain sympathy.

You are certain the motivation is to increase civilian deaths rather than merely a necessity in the achievement of a wider goal?

Might I ask where such an organization in such circumstances could otherwise sensibly put themselves? Are you suggesting that if they located themselves in a centralized fashion, away from civilians, that they would still be in that location long, rather than all "dead by lunchtime"?

Is it not plausible that Hamas locates itself as it does, because its members are neither entirely stupid, not determined to fail utterly?

It was rightly pointed out that the population density of Palestine virtually guarantees that military units cannot escape being embedded in the civilian population.

So you have no problem when Hamas uses schools to attack from?

Its hard to tell if these stories are really the case, or just propaganda.



http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news ... _slaughter

I have a big problem with Hamas. I am in support of Israel.

But guess what? The Truth is the Truth. My bias is less important than the facts. Why isnt yours?

I see a definite Palistinian bias in the news, even from the BBC.

^ This one is actually true about Israel. Does that mean it hurt you to write it?

And it's backed up by logic: Why would Israel attack first? They are, by far, the most advanced and civilized country in the Middle East, so what would they need from desert dwellers whose favorite hobbies are screaming religious nonsense and blowing up themselves and their children?



Actually, and as everyone here knows, Israel's action are daily, nay hourly called "terrorism".
Also, define "civilians", please, and expound upon whether they include people daily firing rocket lauchers across the borders of another peoples' terroritory without provocation. This started literally on Day 1 of Israel's pullout from Gaza, and is only now getting a proportionate Israeli response.



Israel doesn't kill civilians en masse. That's why they went into Gaza on the ground, rather than carpet bombing from the air, which would have been much easier, much more effective, and would have avoided more Israeli casualties. They went in on the ground, risking their lives more that way, in order to avoid Palestinian civilian casualties as much as possible. How about telling the Gazan terrorists to stop breaking into and commandeering their own civilians' homes after drawing Israeli fire? That is actually a great way to spare civilians.

Indeed, tell them to stop bragging about using their own elderly, children, and women as "human shields":

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y[/youtube]



Very doubtful. Provide citation, please.



How about some proof of your ridiculous claim?



I don't understand the complaint here.



Um, by whom is this "forbidden"? It's freely claimed all the time.
Your differing slants between claims #6 and #7 prove your bias.



No. The terms, while untrue, have become commonly-used synonyms for Israel by the media, and hence the public.
In fact, my dad's plane ticket confirmation when traveling to Israel one time said "Occupied Territories" instead of "Israel", and this was several years before Israel gave away Gaza.



Terrorists are not wrong for sleeping in their own homes with their own familes. It's when the terrorists break into other peoples' homes at gunpoint, and use them as combat bases from which to fire more shots that they're called cowardly.

If they get on a battle field (or just out away civilians), instead of hiding behind baby strollers, they'll be called soldiers instead of terrorists.



^ Fabricated. What else can be said?



Well, the quote is made up, and the sentiment is also false.
The media are very largely biased against Israel. Everyone knows that. The BBC even admitted they are.
(They don't think Israel has the right to exist. That's severe anti-Israel bias, obviously.)