What should be the role of government?

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Ragtime
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24 Feb 2009, 2:57 pm

Please describe, in one sentence, a government made-to-order for you, so that it meets your preferences.

Orwell
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24 Feb 2009, 3:27 pm

The thread question and the OP ask different questions.

I'll answer the one from the OP because it's more fun.

Ragtime wrote:

Please describe, in one sentence, a government made-to-order for you, so that it meets your preferences.

It would pay for everything I need and not charge any taxes on me, using other people's money instead.

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MrMisanthrope
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24 Feb 2009, 3:32 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Please describe, in one sentence, a government made-to-order for you, so that it meets your preferences.

It would leave me the hell alone and not steal from me to pay for people like George.

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ascan
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24 Feb 2009, 3:36 pm

Orwell wrote:

It would pay for everything I need and not charge any taxes on me, using other people's money instead.

You should try turning-up in the UK uninvited, Orwell. Stick a burkha on, say you've got ten kids and are seeking asylum, and you'll be laughing all the way.

oomogi
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24 Feb 2009, 4:06 pm

the seperation of church and state

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ruveyn
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24 Feb 2009, 4:15 pm

A government that keeps the peace within the society, deters or battles enemies from without, deters or punishes frauds, breach of contract and other unethical practices that makes mutual association and specialization of labor difficult. Out society depends on people honoring their contracts. If this state is not maintained we revert to the Hobbesian state where life if nasty, brutish and short.

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sartresue
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24 Feb 2009, 4:45 pm

Peace, order and good government topic

An elected, democratic government must ensure appropriate legislation and collect taxes to benefit the different regions that are united for mutual benefit.

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Apple_in_my_Eye
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24 Feb 2009, 5:21 pm

No taxes, no social services, enforcement of a contract is the personal responsibility of the holder, and everybody has a gun.

What could possibly go wrong?

ruveyn
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24 Feb 2009, 8:22 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:

No taxes, no social services, enforcement of a contract is the personal responsibility of the holder, and everybody has a gun.

What could possibly go wrong?

That is a recipe for Somalia. That is what can go wrong.

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MrMisanthrope
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24 Feb 2009, 8:39 pm

No, Somolia is an irrational tribal anarchy, not a AnarchoCapitalist Society (as described).

THere are no Tribal Leaders/Stalinist Governments in an AnarchoCapitalist society to foment tribal genocides.

FWIW, for most of its history, or at least up until the Uncivil War the US opreated almost exactly as Apple described.

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Apple_in_my_Eye
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24 Feb 2009, 8:46 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:

No taxes, no social services, enforcement of a contract is the personal responsibility of the holder, and everybody has a gun.

What could possibly go wrong?

That is a recipe for Somalia. That is what can go wrong.

ruveyn

I should've put an emoticon on the bottom of that. Yes I know. I was making a sarcastic "modest proposal." I get tired of hearing about how government always bad and we could somehow survive without one, how an uncontrolled market could fill it's place and solve all our problems, and that all of society should be set up as some facilly-understood Darwinian process.[/rant]

I don't actually want live like Mad Max.

MrMisanthrope
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24 Feb 2009, 8:52 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:

...
I should've put an emoticon on the bottom of that. Yes I know. I was making a sarcastic "modest proposal." I get tired of hearing about how government always bad and we could somehow survive without one, how an uncontrolled market could fill it's place and solve all our problems, and that all of society should be set up as some facilly-understood Darwinian process.[/rant]

I don't actually want live like Mad Max.

Mad Max is a postapocolyptic Feudal Anarchy... much like Somolia.

You may want to read "The Probability Broach" by L. Neil Smith.

If folks can dream of a Big Government/Nanny State Social Utopia, than others can dream of a Self Reliant Aspie Friendly one.

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Orwell
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24 Feb 2009, 8:52 pm

MrMisanthrope wrote:

FWIW, for most of its history, or at least up until the Uncivil War the US opreated almost exactly as Apple described.

Never mind.

I was going to refute this nonsense, but it's not worth the effort.

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MrMisanthrope
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24 Feb 2009, 8:56 pm

Orwell wrote:

MrMisanthrope wrote:

FWIW, for most of its history, or at least up until the Uncivil War the US opreated almost exactly as Apple described.

Never mind.

I was going to refute this nonsense, but it's not worth the effort.

Probably a good idea.

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Jkid
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24 Feb 2009, 10:08 pm

An ideal government would be one that is, like sartresue suggested, provides peace, order and good governance, AND provides the people with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Apple_in_my_Eye
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24 Feb 2009, 10:13 pm

MrMisanthrope wrote:

Quote:

I don't actually want live like Mad Max.

Mad Max is a postapocolyptic Feudal Anarchy... much like Somolia.

Yes, that's why I said that.

Quote:

You may want to read "The Probability Broach" by L. Neil Smith.

If folks can dream of a Big Government/Nanny State Social Utopia, than others can dream of a Self Reliant Aspie Friendly one.

Arguing against "Mad Max" is the same as arguing for a "Nanny State?" There's quite a bit space between the two. It's the extreme ideology I don't get. Intellectual elegance is psychologically satisfying, but likely has little to do with practical success in the world. Maybe it's even anti-correlated.

Self-reliant Aspie Friendly? I'm not sure what you mean by that. I'm all for meritocracy, but things are not so simple as to make absolute rules. Health problems, or wanting to spend time with a family, having to care for someone who is sick, or many other things make a person a less productive employee, but not necessarily such that they should be severely penalized for it. A pure ideology is a problem there.

And no, I don't think the alternative to "Self-Reliant Aspie Friendly" is total dependence.

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