Watchmen: more philosophical approach.

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Ok, some have probably seen the movie, and some have read the graphic novel. Perhaps there is a thread in another forum, but not with a philosophical emphasis. I do not know what changes the movie made, I haven't seen it, I've heard it is faithful, but unlikely to have been fully faithful.

The Watchmen is a graphic novel known for having innumerable deep philosophical themes. Some of these include matters of determinism, consequentialism, existentialism, cynicism, etc, throughout many of the characters.

There is also a website about philosophy and the Watchmen(not all inclusive I don't think) http://web.me.com/rlevatter/V_is_the_Ve ... lcome.html

In any case, if people could bring up an interesting philosophical element from the book and talk about it, that'd be great. If there is a non-philosophical statement, then there is another thread that will help you out:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt92895.html

Note, the other thread has *some* philosophical elements to it, but not enough where hijacking a non-PPR thread for a PPR purpose would be justifiable, rather than just cruel.

It doesn't get much more philisophical than this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w[/youtube]

Well, you stole that from the other thread. It also rapes the graphic novel. Finally, it lacks philosophy.

My thread is going to die, and I can do nothing but watch as the memes pour forward. The horror!

Fine, to make up for that awesome meme, I shall throw in some philosophy... you anarchist pig.

Should one keep to their ideals even if it means billions will be killed instead of just millions?

Is it worth dying for your ideas?

I saw the film a few days ago, but I admit I wasn't really thinking about it properly. I could hear bits here and there, but was too busy being fascinated by the special effects. CGI willies and that...
I might go and see it again and read the novel though, just because it was so badass, so I'll try and contribute something a little more worthwhile then. For now I'll go with this pile of rubbish.

Dr. Manhattan was a bit of a douche, but perhaps that's part of what makes him still human, despite all his amazing powers. He began to lack empathy for the imminent destruction of the world because people were so hopeless (how many Aspies here would stick with that if they were a big naked blue guy?), so he left to start a new world, so I think he was making a statement about the human condition there, are we really that hopeless? And if we are, why aren't we all dead yet?

The movie was awesome. My wife and I saw it last night. Incredibly long, slow, yet it keeps you glued to the screen the whole time. Very philosophical and a little religious.

I have just come back from seeing it, a fantastic movie. AG you will have to draw out my views on this (please). I am not good at analysing philosophy and symbolism

However the basic concept as I saw it is an examination of human nature and our ability to get along, it explores the issue of whether a type of Machiavellian behaviour is acceptable to bring about human co-operation. IE do the ends justify the means.

I suppose there is a religious element to it, as in what is a creator, but I do not really think there was much.

I never saw the movie.

But yes, there is a major element of that. Like, Veidt brings up whether a consequentialist approach is justifiable, and Rorschach is the opposition.

Yes, Dr. Manhattan has a very religious element to his actions I would think. Unless they removed a lot of that, there are weird metaphysical themes involved with him and religious elements as well.

sorry missed that in your OP



Yes there is plenty of god like behaviour in his actions, although he states that he doubts the existence of god. Then there is the idea of a disconnected and uncaring god finding some form of empathy

As I see it the film pretty much states that humanity is a species connected by fear, either we are opposed by fear or joined by it.

Fear also reconnects the 'super heroes'

Well, I would really focus on his god-like behavior, and his determinism. After all, I think he recognizes the overt control of fate in his life more so than anyone else.

Yes, fear is a major issue in the watchmen. It is the only thing that could reconnect humanity. Then again, the setting is the Cold War, so the issue of fear does not seem surprising.

Well, Rorschach dies for his ideas, and there is something noble in holding to one's principles and never compromising, but Rorschach also would have let the world be destroyed. Is it worth making other people die for your ideas? For that matter, Veidt did the same in killing off millions to scare the US and USSR into peace. Was he right to kill people to advance his vision of society?

Anyways, I've only seen the movie, so can't legitimately comment on much of the philosophy. I'm eager to borrow a copy of the graphic novel.

Hmm... you can buy a new one for 14 dollars(including s&h) I liked the book, but then again I like comics too much.

What seemed a good buildup collapsed into a steaming pile of some kind of crude consequentialism vs. deontology type thingy. Classic, but dull and clumsily expressed.

Maybe if it stews in my head a bit longer it'll reveal something more interesting, but it seems like it should have had a more interesting central moral conundrum. If there's more to it, someone may fill me in as I'm not feeling charitable tonight.

I suppose for me the concept that I am most at odd with is the need for fear to make us co-operate. But then of course I am just a delusional commie bastard

Twoshots is right, do not go to see this film if you want to stew over philosophical and moral conundrums for days after. It is a fantastic CGI action flick with an reasonably intelligent and mildly thought provoking story line.

I do like the idea of John denying god and at the end stating that he is going to a different planet where he might create life, whilst leaving behind a legacy that will most likely turn godlike