The case for legalizing drugs

Post Reply New Topic

Due to a number of thread hijacks on this subject, I thought I'd create a thread devoted to this topic.

LEAP (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LayaGk0TMDc[/youtube]

Penn & Teller BS
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMdFiw8bZHc[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oZpVGUNLFU[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Omh0XBE3rk[/youtube]

More from LEAP
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmgeCeGk--I[/youtube]

Walter Cronkite & America's Disastrous Drug War
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfZgzTpZFac[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldLKoOtK7HY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJQjfCgxGoQ[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeHo2_0uFJI[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq7Rb5fWPb0[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJofiyySnjg[/youtube]

The ACLU position

LEAP

Stop The Drug War

NarcoTerror

Let me add this as well: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ap ... ation-aids

Overall the case against prohabition is pretty overwhelming on pragmatic grounds, but on more of a moral level where do people get the right to tell other people what they can and can't do with their body?

In my case VT, you're preaching to the choir, a few months back I floated the idea here of paying meth addicts IN meth to perform grunt public service work such as litter patrol since they have such a knack for scavenging, got kind of a mixed response... It really is quite disturbing just how much some people have bought into the "drugs are bad" thing, or that keeping them illegal restricts their availability in any way, since it was such a successful strategy with alcohol and all. Despite being (mostly) law abiding, I can make one phone call and have just about any illegal drug I want delivered to my house, and probably an illegal firearm while I'm at it, though as the possessor of a well equipped machine shop I'm more in the supply end of that market. All prohibition (of anything) does is keep a lot of government workers employed, and feeds into a truly disgusting prison industry, at incalculable cost both in money and lives. As to your opponents in the other thread, though I normally am not one to judge based on such things, I think the spelling and punctuation (or lack thereof) in those posts should tell you something about the quality of your opposition, IMHO.

maybe you should post the youtubes as links, when theyre so many. its murdering my computers memory to have them all up at once.

on the issue, i say legalize everything. laws are broken, THEN punished. theyre pointless in themselves.

The questions involved are more than mere freedom to commit some form of suicide in a rather elaborate manner. If drugs are demonstrated to harm people or destroy them and people nevertheless choose freely and maturely to mess themselves up I agree they should have that freedom. Nevertheless both tobacco and other more destructive drugs have an addictive quality that makes experiment rather perilous and those dangers should be fully evident to those choosing to indulge. The fact that drugs are a business involving billions of dollars points out that someone engaged in gaining such huge wealth will stop at nothing to see to it that the money keeps coming in in huge amounts. Obviously this involves terrible violence, persuading children who have little or no comprehension of the dangers of use, and corrupting officials to see to it that the dealers are unobstructed. Of course corruption is the left hand of any business from dealing in armaments through government of creation and maintenance of infrastructure to selling mortgages to dealing in drugs and government everywhere is rife with it. No doubt there are honest businessmen but recent experience in the financial and investment world indicates that, to a disturbing degree, an honest businessman is an oxymoron, especially in the higher echelons of both government and business. It is in recruiting the inexperienced and immature that the business is most disturbing to me. There is great horror of the dangers of pornography which, in general, is a good deal less injurious than dealing in drugs though there is somewhat the same aura about the problem.

...

Last edited by claire-333 on 21 Apr 2009, 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wow thats a great idea. i guess since everything should be made legal bad or good just because people need maximum freedoms. the more the better, maybe killers should be let off the hook because im shure some get an adrenaline rush when they kill. hey maybe they can walk on out to the governemnts distrabution center for all things legal to pick some up on the way to murdering your family. your notion is silly, yeah most people in prison are in for drug offences. so what? most drugs are addictive. and destructive. thats why there illegal, not because of some money power trip the government wants control over. give me a flipping break, anyways remember vibratetogether its only illegal if you get caught. i'd imagine it would be alot better shotting dope up in your arm on the shores of america than say saudia arabia

Um... what about stuff like fast cars and cigarettes? They destroy lives and speed can be addictive, likewise, cigarettes are well documented with their ability to wipe people off the face off the earth in a tar ridden, stinky black paste. Why take it to the nth degree and say murder should be illegal when it's perfectly ok to smoke and drive stupidly?

For the record, I know it's illegal to speed and drive recklessly, but that doesn't stop people, does it? Likewise, the illegality of drugs doesn't stop people finding them, nor does it do anything to quell the curiosity surrounding them.

i know anyone can do them. thats why i said its only illegal if you get caught, vibratetogether thinks that if all drugs are legal more people will be willing to clean up. hey maybe they'd try them a couple of times and be all like nah this isnt for me. haha

im happy you brought smoking and drinking into the mix. how many have had a problem quiting those?

and they are legal

yes, let us legalize PCP! great idea!

The word that is most appropriate for what you just said is asinine, defined as failing to exercise intelligence or judgment. No one is saying that violent criminals should be allowed to victimize people at will because otherwise it would be an infringement on their rights, what is being said is that drug prohibition causes far more problems than it solves, and even as seemingly extreme a position as total legalization would likely lead to less net violence and crime against others. Drug prohibition and all that goes with it is a perfect example of "the cure" being worse than the disease, no one is denying that drugs can't seriously mess up someone's life, but that the best "solution" to the problem is not blanket prohibition and throwing millions of people in jail at great expense.



Again, you're pulling things out of you ass with this idea that people like VT and myself want to legalize violent crime, when in fact violent crime is probably the kind that we are most serious about punishing. Violent crooks need to be in jail, period, but the argument isn't nearly so cut and dry for "crimes" involving drug possession. Our problem is that by expanding the definition of what constitutes a "crime" so broadly through the "drug war", we've blighted our inner cities, bankrupted our judicial system, and ruined millions of lives for no good reason while we're at it. The nasty truth of the matter is that the "war on drugs" has made things far worse for the average citizen, putting him and his loved ones in danger while simultaneously draining billions of dollars of tax money that could have gone to improving everyone's lot. How do I benefit from locking up somebody who was growing pot in their basement? The private prison industry benefits, the DEA/Justice Department/Local Police bureaucracy benefit, possibly even the news media benefits, but does society as a whole benefit?

Drugs would be dirt cheap and clean if they were freely and legally available, and that alone would prevent most of the unpleasant consequences to society that stem from drug use. DUI is still illegal, companies doing construction or heavy lifting work will still drug test, most people won't run out to by an 8-ball just because it's suddenly legal, even if legal there would still be a stigma surrounding drug use that would keep most professional types away. Junkies don't mug people because they want to, crackheads don't steal things because it's fun, they do those things to get their next fix because the price is artificially high due to prohibition. How about 10,000+ dead on the Mexican border due to drug violence, think they'd be fighting like that if the money fell out of their product due to legalizing? How long are we going to pursue an ineffective strategy that makes things worse for most people, because it benefits a few bureaucracies and the people they've brainwashed into mindlessness when it comes to drugs? How much more blood do we need on the hands of prohibition before we finally decide that the "great experiment" is a hopeless failure and try something else?

Could all the people in favour of prohabition actually state some cases where it worked? where the purity of the drugs was lessened? where there avalability was diminished? where rates of addiction were lowered? hmmm no you can't because there are no such cases.

At best it's a costly exercise in futility, and all the people in favour of it don't actually have an aurgument for it.

the things im pulling out of my ass is called common sence. if you suddenly make all drugs legal a whole lot of people are going to want to get involved with them. how may accidents, O.d's and careless deaths would happen because people would try them? or get addicted to them? you seriously under estimate reality vs. "what would happen if you were on a desert island". type senerio, this isnt a video game kid were you can put the needles down forever and never use again. meth for example is dangerous when the user comes off of it. they become paraniod. people do alot of crazy things when paraniod to themselves and to others.

this argument is old now, and im sick of explaining common sence to a bunch of numbskulls.

Hyperbole will get you nowhere... Just to take PCP, have you ever done it, or even known anyone who's done it? Ever bought it or know where to buy it? I've never touched it myself, but I do know what number to call if the urge ever possessed me, how would making it legal change anything for people like me? Do you really think there would be a mad rush of crazed suburbanites who for all theses years have always wanted to do PCP but have held off because of the law? Do you really think that someone who's high on 'dust is any worse than someone who's drunk off their ass or loaded up on 15 Redbulls? Right now, people do 'dust because it's illegal, if you could buy it over the counter do you think it would have the same bad boy appeal? Not to mention, how do you know that having chemically clean PCP readily available wouldn't reduce or eliminate many of the unpleasant effects that the street version has, I mean who knows how may times and with what that baggie you get on a corner's been stepped on? Having a cheap, clean supply readily available would reduce the "collateral damage" of drug use signifigantly, which is much more than can be said for the current system of simply locking everyone up.

My point here being, even with something as seeming clear cut as Angel Dust, there are many shades of gray involved and a one line snide comment isn't really contributing to the discussion. By all means, if you have something relevant to ad to the conversation don't hesitate, but spare us the peanut gallery sniping.

I point to the Swiss experience with legalized heroin. Prohibition only makes the problem worse and prevents addicts from seeking help for their problem.

Oh


My


God


What a stupid post. Sorry to be so blunt but Im pretty dismayed Richardbenson. On the other hand, are you being sarcastic?