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HAL_9000
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22 May 2009, 10:39 am

I've been pondering this a lot lately. I'm pretty lazy when it comes to investing time in forum posts, so I guess I'll just try and spell it out as simply as possible.

Does it seem to anyone else like politics mimics evolution at some level? I used to become very anguished and pained trying to figure out what was the moral right choice, and the right answer to political questions. And then I realised most of the people involved didn't change their minds on an issue regardless of what evidence was presented. Ultimately, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that isn't biased towards some alignment or another.

It always seems to become an issue of each group trying to shout each other down, and what decides who is right is where your opinion lies. There is no definition of absolute right and wrong, if you're not religious, other than what societies have evolved and developed for themselves. Politics in my eyes, tends to dictate how society evolves.

Politicians argue over trivial matters because it's not about who is in the absolute right or wrong. It's always about trying to remain the majority. It's pretty obvious what happens when the alignment of your views falls into the minority. You get marginalised, you have less say and at an extreme you are controlled by the majority and they have free reign to rape and pillage every part of your life.

It's not about whether it's right or wrong to pay a tax. It's about ensuring the survival of your respective class. To think of it as anything else is a lie, I think. I used to wonder a lot why people got so angry over politics, but I think I have found my answer. And I suppose in a sense, anyone with a different political alignment to me is out to eliminate me from the gene pool.



phil777
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23 May 2009, 10:31 pm

This is what "democracy" is. Representation by the people (at least in theory). It is not unheard of that the interests of minorities would be passed as secondary when confronted by the interests of the majority. =/

And we all know how power and control can corrupt in the most insidious of ways. <.<



matsuiny2004
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27 May 2009, 4:17 am

HAL_9000 wrote:
I've been pondering this a lot lately. I'm pretty lazy when it comes to investing time in forum posts, so I guess I'll just try and spell it out as simply as possible.

Does it seem to anyone else like politics mimics evolution at some level? I used to become very anguished and pained trying to figure out what was the moral right choice, and the right answer to political questions. And then I realised most of the people involved didn't change their minds on an issue regardless of what evidence was presented. Ultimately, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that isn't biased towards some alignment or another.

It always seems to become an issue of each group trying to shout each other down, and what decides who is right is where your opinion lies. There is no definition of absolute right and wrong, if you're not religious, other than what societies have evolved and developed for themselves. Politics in my eyes, tends to dictate how society evolves.

Politicians argue over trivial matters because it's not about who is in the absolute right or wrong. It's always about trying to remain the majority. It's pretty obvious what happens when the alignment of your views falls into the minority. You get marginalised, you have less say and at an extreme you are controlled by the majority and they have free reign to rape and pillage every part of your life.

It's not about whether it's right or wrong to pay a tax. It's about ensuring the survival of your respective class. To think of it as anything else is a lie, I think. I used to wonder a lot why people got so angry over politics, but I think I have found my answer. And I suppose in a sense, anyone with a different political alignment to me is out to eliminate me from the gene pool.



very interesting and informative comment. This is a concept many people die not understanding. need


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zer0netgain
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27 May 2009, 6:57 am

HAL_9000 wrote:
Does it seem to anyone else like politics mimics evolution at some level?


It depends on the political model.

EVOLUTION is to say that natural selection yields a more highly evolved specimen over time.

This is not so with politics. More often than not, DEVOLUTION is what you get.

The Founding Fathers created a REPUBLIC. This type of government allows for change via complex and slow processes to prevent society reconstructing the government on momentary whims. We were not handed a DEMOCRACY because history proves that democracies are short-lived. As soon as people realize a simple majority can vote themselves graft from the public treasury, they can be swayed with promises of something for nothing, the least capable rise into power, and the nation essentially drives itself into the ground.

Man, left to his own devices, cannot make a better society over time unless deliberate safeguards are put in place and vigilantly defended against the inclination of mob rule by the unwashed masses. Those with the wisdom to lead via long-term plans and preserving fundamental freedoms and liberties for future generations should be deciding what gets done, not people out to make a quick short-term gain at the cost of future viability.

In fact, this really says that politics that yield positive results over time mimic the theory of INTELLIGENT DESIGN, and the improvement of society comes by an outside force compelling positive development rather than letting nature run its course to appease the path of least resistance.

Destroying a society is easy. Building one is hard.



oppositedirection
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27 May 2009, 2:37 pm

I certainly feel that trying to understand politics in terms of right and wrong will never work, simply because right and wrong are not objective categories but simple preferences to the individual, usually formed from political and social pressures. Saying Obama was right or wrong to do an act would only really capture what was happening if you had an identical notion of right and wrong to him. Given that you can never fully understand his notion of right and wrong (even were he to spell it out, it would be in words and words mean different things to different people) then you are going to miss things. Notions of right and wrong are an imposition, using them will distance yourself from what is actually happening. If evolution is a good metaphor for politics, I'm uncertain but you certainly could employ many worse one. Some concepts survive social pressures, some don't, I guess that's similar to survivial of the fittest.



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27 May 2009, 4:24 pm

HAL_9000 wrote:
It's not about whether it's right or wrong to pay a tax. It's about ensuring the survival of your respective class. To think of it as anything else is a lie, I think. I used to wonder a lot why people got so angry over politics, but I think I have found my answer. And I suppose in a sense, anyone with a different political alignment to me is out to eliminate me from the gene pool.

The bold comments are not necessarily consistent with each other in practice. How can you ensure the survival of a relatively rich, relatively socially elevated class without a poorer and less socially elevated class?

zer0netgain wrote:
EVOLUTION is to say that natural selection yields a more highly evolved specimen over time.

"More highly evolved" is not actually a coherent concept.