An Independent Scotland ?

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Tollorin
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14 Sep 2014, 6:21 pm

MrGrumpy wrote:

The fact that Orange marches in Scotland are unremarkable is about to change - whatever the result of the referendum.

If the Yes vote wins, the unionists will feel aggrieved, and if the No vote wins the nationalists will feel aggrieved. Whatever the result, conflict is a very possible outcome. Whatever happens, Mr Salmond will be entirely responsible and I think that the majority of UK citizens will very soon begin to wish that he had never been born.

Quebec had two referendum so far, including one that was very close, yet there is no war that happened from that.

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14 Sep 2014, 6:33 pm

Tollorin wrote:

Quebec had two referendum so far, including one that was very close, yet there is no war that happened from that.

How many referendums will Quebec conduct, until they get the required result?

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Toy_Soldier
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14 Sep 2014, 11:14 pm

ravenloft68 wrote:

Well, with an estimated 3 Trillion Pounds worth of oil just off shore, they are estimating that Scotland could become the wealthiest country in the world! Even richer than Quatar! That is why UK does not want them to separate.

Oil does funny things to people.

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15 Sep 2014, 8:24 am

It's funny isn't it, the referendum was only allowed because the one in charge thought to himself "They are going to vote no anyway". Now look what happened.

Now that people are voting for independence they are greatly regretting doing the referendum at all. Major companies are already threatening to drop out of Scotland if the vote goes through and a whole media campaign is being initiated to prevent the referendum from going through. I doubt they are ever going to allow the independence to actually go through even if the referendum passes, I do not believe they are going to give people that much power over their own country.

Democracy only goes as far as those in charge want it to go.

Adamantium
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15 Sep 2014, 8:44 am

qFox wrote:

If you read "Sycatcher" and found it plausible, then you know there are plenty of people in the old establishment who would agree. But there was no coup (although what was done to Wilson was getting close). Nevertheless, I don't agree. If the vote is yes, then Scotland will be a new nation, outside of Nato and outside of the EU. Admittance to the EU will require monetary union and membership in the Schengen zone and this will mean passport control at the UK/Scotland border.

If the vote is yes, it will happen and people will have to live with it.

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15 Sep 2014, 9:41 am

Adamantium wrote:

qFox wrote:

I hope you are right, but I'm still doubtful.

When was the last time a monarchy gave away a piece of land it had claim over? I can easily see them go as far as to sabotage the entire referendum. There's already widespread propaganda campaigns to scare people to vote no.

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15 Sep 2014, 9:44 am

AspieUtah wrote:

Wow! I studied the Orange marches in college 30+ years ago! I had no idea that they continue today, especially with how intimidating and hostile they became then. Are they as ugly now?

This year, I was at a 12th July parade in Northern Ireland. I went to Northern Ireland for a holiday (my seventh visit there) and to watch a friend that was marching in it. Wonderful relaxed rural atmosphere.

I strongly recommend going to one in Northern Ireland if you ever get chance - just avoid the Belfast ones as they aren't too good.

AspieUtah
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15 Sep 2014, 9:45 am

qFox wrote:

...When was the last time a monarchy gave away a piece of land it had claim over? I can easily see them go as far as to sabotage the entire referendum. There's already widespread propaganda campaigns to scare people to vote no.

Yep. But, I see the propaganda backfiring (see BBC slanting news and queen warning voters to "think very carefully about the future"). Voters don't generally like being lied to or threatened.

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Tequila
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15 Sep 2014, 9:46 am

Marcia wrote:

There are more Orange Walks every year in Glasgow than there are in NI.

There are hundreds of Orange Order parades in Glasgow are there? I find that very difficult to believe.

Also: be careful not to throw in the ABoD, RBP and the band parades in together. They are all separate.

AspieUtah
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15 Sep 2014, 9:48 am

Tequila wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

Wow! I studied the Orange marches in college 30+ years ago! I had no idea that they continue today, especially with how intimidating and hostile they became then. Are they as ugly now?

I would hope that they are as casual and calm as you described, and I suspect that they are much better today. The Orange marches of the 1970s and early 1980s were violent riots.

Tequila
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15 Sep 2014, 9:49 am

Marcia wrote:

As I said, I would like to see them banned.

I think they're marvellous.

And, from the top:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiNHseHl8jY[/youtube]

Tequila
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15 Sep 2014, 9:51 am

AspieUtah wrote:

I would hope that they are as casual and calm as you described, and I suspect that they are much better today.

There's never any trouble at the rural ones - community relations at the Fermanagh one is really good, apparently, and a fair number of Catholics turn out to see their friends and acquaintances. It really is very different from the Belfast ones, which tend to be more rowdy and obnoxious - and the bands are a lot more varied.

The Belfast ones tend to have bother with people drinking and being yobbish.

Any rioting these days tends to be limited to two or three interface points in Belfast, where people cannot get along. North Belfast is the worst one - I've read the kind of stuff that the more bigoted residents post about their neighbours and it's vile.

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15 Sep 2014, 1:24 pm

MrGrumpy wrote:

Tollorin wrote:

Quebec had two referendum so far, including one that was very close, yet there is no war that happened from that.

How many referendums will Quebec conduct, until they get the required result?

I think that's what they call a Bernouilli experiment. You keep doing the same thing until it succeeds.

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15 Sep 2014, 1:28 pm

Toy_Soldier wrote:

ravenloft68 wrote:

Oil does funny things to people.

I live in the States. Would the Scotland get to keep the off shore oil reserves or would England still keep them if Scotland votes for independence?

If they are Scotland for keeps, adios would be my vote.

I don't understand how when places like Bulgaria, Romania and Kazan broke away from the Soviet Union, no one worried if they would turn into third world hell holes. I think Scotland has more for it than those places.

AspieUtah
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15 Sep 2014, 3:59 pm

Tawaki wrote:

I live in the States. Would the Scotland get to keep the off shore oil reserves or would England still keep them if Scotland votes for independence...?

Yes and no. I suspect that the Scottish infrastructure (oil-related and otherwise) that is still being amortized by the United Kingdom with either be: 1) sold to an independent Scotland, or 2) allowed to continue its operation as a U.K. operation until such amortization ends, then convert to a Scottish operation. The oil-recovery and sales component would be diverted to Scottish assets immediately (after a certain date, such as the first day of the next fiscal year).

pluto
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15 Sep 2014, 5:12 pm

There are a few different factors involved.The oil is in Scottish waters off the east coast and the city of Aberdeen is known as 'the oil capital of Europe' however it's not only Scottish companies involved in the operations,the big players are mainly British,Dutch and indeed American.

If it's a Yes vote,The Scottish Government plan to hand back the UK's nuclear submarines which are based on the west coast,as this would open up that area to exploration and another possible oil boom. The problem is that despite their anti-nuclear stance they also want to be members of NATO with all the security that would bring. To me this is one of their many 'have your cake and eat it' policies,the others
including having a currency union backed up by the Bank Of England.

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