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cyberdad
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26 Dec 2017, 10:36 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Yeah poor mass murdering colonising Israelis, what else are they meant to do eh!

The Jews who settled in Israel have the right to protect themselves as much as any other people.



cyberdad
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26 Dec 2017, 10:45 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Aramaic is a younger cousin of Hebrew. Both were older cousins of Arabic. When the Arabs exploded out of the Arabian peninsula in the Eighth century in the years right after Mohammed founded Islam they brought Arabic with them sweeping away the languages of North Africa and the Middle East. Aramaic today only survives in some pockets.

Oxford scholar David Rohl has made a compelling case for the ancestors of the Jews migrating (exactly as documented in the old testament) from Sumeria. As Sumerians (a non-semetic people) were being attacked and wiped out by the Akkadians and Persians they migrated westward led by their king Abraham. The Sumerians who stayed behind called themselves Elamites and are also mentioned in the bible. It's compelling because every single ancient tribe is mentioned in the Jewish books except one (the Sumerians) and the reason is simple because the jews are the descendents of the Sumerians and their very large empire called Sumer

The Elamites were eventually wiped out by the Persians but Abraham's descendants settled in Egypt absorbing the local semetic dialect (Habiru) which is what the Jews arriving with Moses were called (Hebrew). The Jews who settled in Palestine were absorbed into the local population and adopted the language of the time (Aramaic). While Sumerian became an extinct language and the small band of Sumerians became genetically indistinguishable from their semetic neighbors they bought with them their sky god Yahweh and the rest (as they say) is history



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26 Dec 2017, 10:54 pm

cyberdad wrote:
In time there will be a meeting of minds in the middle ground between moderate Palis and moderate Jews
Zionism will be relegated to an out of date fringe belief

It's not even "Jewish extremism" that's the problem.

Some Jewish fundamentalists oppose Zionism.


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cyberdad
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26 Dec 2017, 10:56 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
In time there will be a meeting of minds in the middle ground between moderate Palis and moderate Jews
Zionism will be relegated to an out of date fringe belief

It's not even "Jewish extremism" that's the problem.

Some Jewish fundamentalists oppose Zionism.



Ahh yes, nice to be labelled "godless"



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26 Dec 2017, 11:10 pm

cyberdad wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Wouldn't have thought so. 95% of Israelis supported Israel's massacre in Gaza in 2014.

Why the outrage? most Americans supported the war on terror which includes a number of massacres of civilians. It's called collateral damage. As I said before Israel is surrounded by aggressive anti-Jewish states who have tried to eliminate both the state of Israel and it's civilian population.

The creation of the state of Israel is no more legal than the creation of the United States. Native Americans (what's left of them) have accepted their fate, on the other hand Palestinians choose to maintain an armed struggle. What else do you expect the Israelis to do?

On this point I diverge from the general left wing narrative supporting the Palestinian struggle while (apparently) ignoring the plight of millions of indigenous people all over the world who have been deprived of autonomous control of their traditional lands. What's so special about the f*ing Palis?


I will agree that the conquest of the Americas was illegal and horrific.

That being said, we should be fighting for the rights of everyone who lives in this land. Making all the white people leave the Americas is pretty much impossible. They aren't gonna do it. Nobody can force them.

In other words, the Native Americans will never get their land back. We can, however, create a world in which Native Americans aren't brutalised.

There was oppression within Native American societies before Europeans showed up. Therefore, re-creating pre-colonial America would only cause new problems. We should be trying to create a new world without oppression. We shouldn't replace European forms of oppression with old Native American forms of oppression.

I have a similar attitude towards Palestine. It's probably too late to give the Palestinians their land back. We can, however, prevent Israel from taking its crusade any further. They've taken enough land. It's time to establish permanent national borders.

Additionally, Israel and Palestine are both run by power-mad elites. The Palestinian leaders need to stop forcing religion on their people. The Israeli leaders need to stop trying to preserve Israel's status as a "Jewish state". Nation-states shouldn't exist. We're all just people after all.


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naturalplastic
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26 Dec 2017, 11:16 pm

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Aramaic is a younger cousin of Hebrew. Both were older cousins of Arabic. When the Arabs exploded out of the Arabian peninsula in the Eighth century in the years right after Mohammed founded Islam they brought Arabic with them sweeping away the languages of North Africa and the Middle East. Aramaic today only survives in some pockets.

Oxford scholar David Rohl has made a compelling case for the ancestors of the Jews migrating (exactly as documented in the old testament) from Sumeria. As Sumerians (a non-semetic people) were being attacked and wiped out by the Akkadians and Persians they migrated westward led by their king Abraham. The Sumerians who stayed behind called themselves Elamites and are also mentioned in the bible. It's compelling because every single ancient tribe is mentioned in the Jewish books except one (the Sumerians) and the reason is simple because the jews are the descendents of the Sumerians and their very large empire called Sumer

The Elamites were eventually wiped out by the Persians but Abraham's descendants settled in Egypt absorbing the local semetic dialect (Habiru) which is what the Jews arriving with Moses were called (Hebrew). The Jews who settled in Palestine were absorbed into the local population and adopted the language of the time (Aramaic). While Sumerian became an extinct language and the small band of Sumerians became genetically indistinguishable from their semetic neighbors they bought with them their sky god Yahweh and the rest (as they say) is history


Why did you bother posting this?


I get it that you got your screwed up chronology from some pseudoscientific crank theorist and his revisionist history.and you're loyal to that revisionist history.

But nothing in that revisionist history revises what I said nor does any of it support what you said.



Hebrew is the oldest of the three languages, Aramaic is younger, and Arabic is the youngest.

So Aramaic cannot have been the ancestor of Hebrew anymore than you could be the ancestor of George Washington.

Nothing in your above post changes that fact.
So why did you make your above post?



cyberdad
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26 Dec 2017, 11:34 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

So why did you make your above post?


To provide context, the chronology of proto-semitic languages (as with almost all ancient languages) is mostly based on written records which are not as accurate when applied to a "projected" time line as you would like to believe



Last edited by cyberdad on 26 Dec 2017, 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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26 Dec 2017, 11:35 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Wouldn't have thought so. 95% of Israelis supported Israel's massacre in Gaza in 2014.

Why the outrage? most Americans supported the war on terror which includes a number of massacres of civilians. It's called collateral damage. As I said before Israel is surrounded by aggressive anti-Jewish states who have tried to eliminate both the state of Israel and it's civilian population.

The creation of the state of Israel is no more legal than the creation of the United States. Native Americans (what's left of them) have accepted their fate, on the other hand Palestinians choose to maintain an armed struggle. What else do you expect the Israelis to do?

On this point I diverge from the general left wing narrative supporting the Palestinian struggle while (apparently) ignoring the plight of millions of indigenous people all over the world who have been deprived of autonomous control of their traditional lands. What's so special about the f*ing Palis?


I will agree that the conquest of the Americas was illegal and horrific.

That being said, we should be fighting for the rights of everyone who lives in this land. Making all the white people leave the Americas is pretty much impossible. They aren't gonna do it. Nobody can force them.

In other words, the Native Americans will never get their land back. We can, however, create a world in which Native Americans aren't brutalised.

There was oppression within Native American societies before Europeans showed up. Therefore, re-creating pre-colonial America would only cause new problems. We should be trying to create a new world without oppression. We shouldn't replace European forms of oppression with old Native American forms of oppression.

I have a similar attitude towards Palestine. It's probably too late to give the Palestinians their land back. We can, however, prevent Israel from taking its crusade any further. They've taken enough land. It's time to establish permanent national borders.

Additionally, Israel and Palestine are both run by power-mad elites. The Palestinian leaders need to stop forcing religion on their people. The Israeli leaders need to stop trying to preserve Israel's status as a "Jewish state". Nation-states shouldn't exist. We're all just people after all.

Agree with your post...



naturalplastic
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27 Dec 2017, 6:32 am

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:

So why did you make your above post?


To provide context, the chronology of proto-semitic languages (as with almost all ancient languages) is mostly based on written records which are not as accurate when applied to a "projected" time line as you would like to believe


This statement is pure gibberish.

Why is spouting gibberish preferable to just admitting that "yes, Naturalplastic. I, Cyberdad, was a little off."?



JohnPowell
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27 Dec 2017, 12:19 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Wouldn't have thought so. 95% of Israelis supported Israel's massacre in Gaza in 2014.

Why the outrage? most Americans supported the war on terror which includes a number of massacres of civilians. It's called collateral damage. As I said before Israel is surrounded by aggressive anti-Jewish states who have tried to eliminate both the state of Israel and it's civilian population.

The creation of the state of Israel is no more legal than the creation of the United States. Native Americans (what's left of them) have accepted their fate, on the other hand Palestinians choose to maintain an armed struggle. What else do you expect the Israelis to do?

On this point I diverge from the general left wing narrative supporting the Palestinian struggle while (apparently) ignoring the plight of millions of indigenous people all over the world who have been deprived of autonomous control of their traditional lands. What's so special about the f*ing Palis?


I will agree that the conquest of the Americas was illegal and horrific.

That being said, we should be fighting for the rights of everyone who lives in this land. Making all the white people leave the Americas is pretty much impossible. They aren't gonna do it. Nobody can force them.

In other words, the Native Americans will never get their land back. We can, however, create a world in which Native Americans aren't brutalised.

There was oppression within Native American societies before Europeans showed up. Therefore, re-creating pre-colonial America would only cause new problems. We should be trying to create a new world without oppression. We shouldn't replace European forms of oppression with old Native American forms of oppression.

I have a similar attitude towards Palestine. It's probably too late to give the Palestinians their land back. We can, however, prevent Israel from taking its crusade any further. They've taken enough land. It's time to establish permanent national borders.

Additionally, Israel and Palestine are both run by power-mad elites. The Palestinian leaders need to stop forcing religion on their people. The Israeli leaders need to stop trying to preserve Israel's status as a "Jewish state". Nation-states shouldn't exist. We're all just people after all.


It's not too late. Some people still have the keys to their doors. Nothing wrong with having countries but you can't just build one on top of the other and get away with it. It is near on impossible for someone to get elected in the US who doesn't show support for Israel and no Israeli Prime Minister would give away the required land for a 2 state solution.


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cyberdad
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27 Dec 2017, 7:30 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:

So why did you make your above post?


To provide context, the chronology of proto-semitic languages (as with almost all ancient languages) is mostly based on written records which are not as accurate when applied to a "projected" time line as you would like to believe


This statement is pure gibberish.

Why is spouting gibberish preferable to just admitting that "yes, Naturalplastic. I, Cyberdad, was a little off."?


Sorry was layering further information - I didn't answer your question, don't like Rohl's research, fair enough
I am not confident that archaeology properly explains the origin of the Hebrew languages and I think the Jewish book's give some indication about their own origins stemming from Sumer (using their own words) as opposed to be being indigenous to the area known as Canaan as we know they adopted Canaanite script (Phoenician) and didn;t have a writing style of their own in the region



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29 Dec 2017, 4:07 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
In time there will be a meeting of minds in the middle ground between moderate Palis and moderate Jews
Zionism will be relegated to an out of date fringe belief

It's not even "Jewish extremism" that's the problem.

Some Jewish fundamentalists oppose Zionism.



Everyone keeps saying that if you are anti-Zionist, then you are prejudiced against Jews. Does this mean these Jewish Fundamentalists are prejudiced against Jews? How much do they hate themselves for being Jewish?



ASPartOfMe
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29 Dec 2017, 7:36 pm

kokopelli wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
In time there will be a meeting of minds in the middle ground between moderate Palis and moderate Jews
Zionism will be relegated to an out of date fringe belief

It's not even "Jewish extremism" that's the problem.

Some Jewish fundamentalists oppose Zionism.



Everyone keeps saying that if you are anti-Zionist, then you are prejudiced against Jews. Does this mean these Jewish Fundamentalists are prejudiced against Jews? How much do they hate themselves for being Jewish?


Anti Zionism does not equate to anti semitism. Anti Zionism is a politically correct way often used to practice anti semitism.


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kokopelli
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30 Dec 2017, 12:28 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
In time there will be a meeting of minds in the middle ground between moderate Palis and moderate Jews
Zionism will be relegated to an out of date fringe belief

It's not even "Jewish extremism" that's the problem.

Some Jewish fundamentalists oppose Zionism.

Everyone keeps saying that if you are anti-Zionist, then you are prejudiced against Jews. Does this mean these Jewish Fundamentalists are prejudiced against Jews? How much do they hate themselves for being Jewish?


Anti Zionism does not equate to anti semitism.


Yep. But try telling that to many people, Jewish and non-Jewish, who consider anti-zionism to be anti-semitic. We've even seen that on this thread.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Anti Zionism is a politically correct way often used to practice anti semitism.
I think it likely that many people who are anti-semitic are anti-zionist. Anyone who uses that to claim that the two are equal is a nitwit.



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30 Dec 2017, 7:16 pm

If you have a state that calls itself the "Jewish state" and does everything in the name of the "Jewish people" and that state tries to control a lot of countries and outlets and is a war monger and a racist state. You're going to get a backlash against Jews.


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31 Dec 2017, 8:34 am

JohnPowell wrote:
If you have a state that calls itself the "Jewish state" and does everything in the name of the "Jewish people" and that state tries to control a lot of countries and outlets and is a war monger and a racist state. You're going to get a backlash against Jews.

It doesn't do any of those things, as you and every other Jew hater is well aware. Any thoughts on the actions of the Iranian regime in killing unarmed demonstrators in the last few days, John? Thought not.