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Why Severe Winter STILL Doesn’t Disprove Global Warming

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EzraS
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27 Jan 2018, 6:25 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
EzraS wrote:
The the more people go on and on about how it's real not fake, the more fake it seems.

And even worse are terms like deniers and unbelievers.

Almost makes makes me expect a couple of guys in white shirts and ties riding bicycles to show up to convince me it's real.


If you're going to spew pure wind, you might as well say nothing at all.


Perhaps this why so many people call you a troll.



EzraS
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27 Jan 2018, 6:30 pm

Tollorin wrote:
EzraS wrote:
The the more people go on and on about how it's real not fake, the more fake it seems.

And even worse are terms like deniers and unbelievers.

Almost makes makes me expect a couple of guys in white shirts and ties riding bicycles to show up to convince me it's real.

That's because you don't know about the sciences.
https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php

Also the more I see what are saying climate deniers, the more I conclude they don't know what they are talking about.


Actually I do know about science. And that's why I know it's atypical for science to pitched this way and carry terms usually reserved for religion. It comes off in the same vein as those trying to convince people the earth is flat. "Here's a link showing why we know the earth is flat. Flat earth scientists have all kinds of data. You gotta believe us". Seriously, that's how it sounds a lot of the time.



Last edited by EzraS on 27 Jan 2018, 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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27 Jan 2018, 6:35 pm

FACT: Kiribati is sinking into the sea because of global climate change.



By the way, most Kiribati people are Christian conservatives. 96% of people in Kiribati are Christian, compared to 80% of Americans.

Perhaps Christians in other parts of the world should be concerned.


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Tollorin
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27 Jan 2018, 6:40 pm

EzraS wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
EzraS wrote:
The the more people go on and on about how it's real not fake, the more fake it seems.

And even worse are terms like deniers and unbelievers.

Almost makes makes me expect a couple of guys in white shirts and ties riding bicycles to show up to convince me it's real.

That's because you don't know about the sciences.
https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php

Also the more I see what are saying climate deniers, the more I conclude they don't know what they are talking about.


Actually I do know about science. And that's why I know it's atypical for science to pitched this way and carry terms usually reserved for religion.

I mean the science of climate. That the Earth temperature is rising is proved beyond reasonable doubts; like evolution and gravity, which are also beyond any reasonable doubts. A theory is the best explanation for a bunch of phenomenons getting the know facts, and "temperature is not rising", "humans are not responsible" or "it's a good thing" are not in accord the facts coming from observations, unless you go with some insane and crazy theories.


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27 Jan 2018, 6:43 pm


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27 Jan 2018, 7:36 pm

It isn't a fact that humans are causing 'global warming'. And the solutions to it are pathetic. Support solutions that actually work and then no one can arguem


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27 Jan 2018, 7:45 pm

Tollorin wrote:
Raptor wrote:
If the Cuba were to be under at least three feet of snow every winter for fifty years straight the left would still say that it disproves nothing and press on with their agenda; using climate change to regulate us to death.

Next...

Even if the sea suddenly rises by 100 feet and that the ice at South Pole was melting, the right would still say it prove nothing and press on with their agenda; deregulating enterprises to death.
That they are still denying it while glaciers melt around the world and the sea ice of Arctic is disappearing show that they don't want to hear the true.
That they are still saying that 1998 was the hottest years ever recorded show the bad faith of many of them; in true the hottest recorded years were in order: 2017, 2016 and 2015.


Of the next 10,000 to 20,000 years or so, it could rise by something approaching 100 feet. But that's only if we are truly lucky. More likely this interglacial warm period will end and temperatures will plummet. As they plummet, the carrying capacity of the Earth will rapidly decrease. Starvation will become a leading cause of death. Also, death from wars over the dwindling resources could even cause higher death rates than starvation.

Warmth means abundance and life. Cold means poverty and death.



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27 Jan 2018, 7:51 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
It isn't a fact that humans are causing 'global warming'.


Yes it is.

Quote:
And the solutions to it are pathetic. Support solutions that actually work and then no one can arguem


Corporate America is blocking all the real solutions.

That's why the American Anti-Corruption Act needs to pass.

Average Americans care more about the environment than the wealthy elites do. Therefore, the plutocracy needs to be abolished.


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JohnPowell
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27 Jan 2018, 8:00 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
It isn't a fact that humans are causing 'global warming'.


Yes it is.

Quote:
And the solutions to it are pathetic. Support solutions that actually work and then no one can arguem


Corporate America is blocking all the real solutions.

That's why the American Anti-Corruption Act needs to pass.

Average Americans care more about the environment than the wealthy elites do. Therefore, the plutocracy needs to be abolished.


No it is not. It is a theory based on non science.

'Elites' are coming up with the solutions on the other side. People in power are just using it to make money.


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27 Jan 2018, 8:02 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
It isn't a fact that humans are causing 'global warming'. And the solutions to it are pathetic. Support solutions that actually work and then no one can arguem


It seems likely that the most affordable way to limit the warming is with more pollution.

Personally, I consider anyone in a panic about global warming who is against the large scale building of nuclear plants around the world to be hypocrites. Also those who cry about the human production of CO2 and then insist on driving around in big gas, flying in airplanes, travelling in big ships, ... to be hypocrites -- if you want to travel, get yourself a sailboat. And especially those who buy products made/grown around the world that have to be brought in on airplanes, big ships, ... .

Note also that so many of the "green" ways to produce electricity end up producing more CO2 in order to mine the raw materials, transport it to factories, build the parts, transport them to the fields where they are erected, and putting them up than they can possibly save in the electricity they produce.

And the most hypocritical of all is growing corn to make ethanol. Whoever came up with that idea should be flogged at least once a week for the rest of their lives.



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27 Jan 2018, 8:10 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
No it is not. It is a theory based on non science.


https://www.ucsusa.org/our-work/global-warming/science-and-impacts/global-warming-science#.Wm0hfNJy7IU
https://www.skepticalscience.com/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/science-behind-climate-change/

The people who have devoted their entire lives to studying the climate seem to disagree with you.

Quote:
'Elites' are coming up with the solutions on the other side. People in power are just using it to make money.


How can you make money by going against the oil industry?

The alternative fuel industry isn't strong enough to manipulate the government at this point.


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27 Jan 2018, 11:02 pm

kokopelli wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Raptor wrote:
If the Cuba were to be under at least three feet of snow every winter for fifty years straight the left would still say that it disproves nothing and press on with their agenda; using climate change to regulate us to death.

Next...

Even if the sea suddenly rises by 100 feet and that the ice at South Pole was melting, the right would still say it prove nothing and press on with their agenda; deregulating enterprises to death.
That they are still denying it while glaciers melt around the world and the sea ice of Arctic is disappearing show that they don't want to hear the true.
That they are still saying that 1998 was the hottest years ever recorded show the bad faith of many of them; in true the hottest recorded years were in order: 2017, 2016 and 2015.


Of the next 10,000 to 20,000 years or so, it could rise by something approaching 100 feet. But that's only if we are truly lucky. More likely this interglacial warm period will end and temperatures will plummet. As they plummet, the carrying capacity of the Earth will rapidly decrease. Starvation will become a leading cause of death. Also, death from wars over the dwindling resources could even cause higher death rates than starvation.

Warmth means abundance and life. Cold means poverty and death.


Climate change is a historical fact. The issue is the way the left weaponizes it to further thier anti-business agenda when we may have little to no effect. Even if the US goes fully "green" what's to make the rest of the world go green?

Quote:
More likely this interglacial warm period will end and temperatures will plummet. As they plummet, the carrying capacity of the Earth will rapidly decrease. Starvation will become a leading cause of death. Also, death from wars over the dwindling resources could even cause higher death rates than starvation.

I can easily see that happening.


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27 Jan 2018, 11:06 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Strangely, you never seem to care when a government policy actually causes human deaths.


You forget that I'm an admitted war criminal and that should explain why I'm so awful.


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27 Jan 2018, 11:08 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
EzraS wrote:
The the more people go on and on about how it's real not fake, the more fake it seems.

And even worse are terms like deniers and unbelievers.

Almost makes makes me expect a couple of guys in white shirts and ties riding bicycles to show up to convince me it's real.


If you're going to spew pure wind, you might as well say nothing at all.


You know what they say about people who live in glass houses...


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27 Jan 2018, 11:18 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
It isn't a fact that humans are causing 'global warming'.


Yes it is.


only a fraction of global climate change is a direct result of human industrial activity.
other phenomena such as milankovitch cycles are responsible as well and have been going on for billions of years.

now, i'm not saying that we're guiltless and we aren't being irresponsible with stuff like waste disposal, but the climate will be changing long after we're gone. warming and cooling alike.

maybe the planet is getting warmer, but how much of that is because of us? no one can say for sure. the acceleration of the rate of change would probably be what we're most guilty of, less so the change itself.

BTW carrying capacity of the earth is just as likely to decrease with increasing temperatures as it is with decreasing ones, especially in impoverished areas without access to reliable means of cooling or healthcare. i think we've been in a sort of "goldilocks zone" for most of human history.

JohnPowell wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Another Thing: Green energy isn't a joke. Using alternative energy can and does cut carbon emissions.

I'm not sure if green energy is helping. Australia used to get most of its electricity from coal. Now Australia gets a significant fraction of its electricity from wind power. This means we need less coal. The coal we don't use is exported to China and they use it to generate electricity.

What difference does it make if we don't get our electricity from coal but someone else burns the same coal?

It's the same with fuel-efficient cars. Some cars use less fuel. If we all use efficient cars that means our oil reserves will last for a few more decades. But over a longer period of time, the same amount of oil will be burned. What difference does it make?

Using fossil fuels in a more efficient way doesn't mean less fossil fuels get burned in total. It just means they can charge more for them. I'm sure oil companies love efficient cars because it means they can charge the same amount for less gas and so keep making money for more years into the future.


Brilliant post.


agreed.


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27 Jan 2018, 11:19 pm

Raptor wrote:
Climate change is a historical fact.


The climate usually changes over millions of years. When the climate changes rapidly, this usually leads to a mass extinction.

The dinosaurs went extinct when an asteroid struck the earth and exploded, throwing iridium soot into the air. This soot was carried all around the earth by the wind. The earth's average temperature dropped over a few decades and the dinosaurs couldn't cope with such rapid change.

Quote:
The issue is the way the left weaponizes it to further thier anti-business agenda when we may have little to no effect.


In countries with stronger environmental regulations than the United States (such as Iceland) business is still alive and well.

Quote:
Even if the US goes fully "green" what's to make the rest of the world go green?


You raise a good point. China produces a lot of greenhouse gasses, since it is a fascist dictatorship disguised as a socialist state.

Perhaps we should stop trading with the Chinese. That would give them an incentive to change.

I doubt that Trump is actually trying to restrict trade with China.

Quote:
Quote:
More likely this interglacial warm period will end and temperatures will plummet. As they plummet, the carrying capacity of the Earth will rapidly decrease. Starvation will become a leading cause of death. Also, death from wars over the dwindling resources could even cause higher death rates than starvation.

I can easily see that happening.


Global cooling won't happen for another 5 million years and it won't be human-caused. It's none of our concern.


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