Emergence of a Deadly Coronavirus

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https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavir ... -1.4851641

How canceled events and self-quarantines save lives

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/10/21171481/ ... 2CEzPcNk2s

I have nothing against "canceled events" and "self-quarantines," by the way.

It's just sad that this whole thing had to happen. It'll certainly mess up the economies of many nations.

Attempts to quarantine are just not going to work, it seems to me. They may slow down the spread of the virus but certainly won't stop it. Why? People can be contagious for over a week before showing symptoms. Also, the entire world is just way too inter-connected.

In my admittedly non-expert opinion, it seems to me that the only possible way to stop the spread of coronavirus would be:

1) Ramp up production of face masks, hand sanitizers, etc. (Hopefully this is already starting to happen.)

2) Once production is sufficiently ramped up that there's no longer a shortage, require everyone to wear a face mask when on public transport and in various other categories of public spaces that tend to be crowded.

3) Require bars and restaurants to build partitions so that there is no more than some maximum number of people per room, and to provide more public sinks (besides just those in the bathroom) so that customers can wash their hands more often and more easily. Also, customers should be required to cover their mouth and nose with a napkin or facial tissue whenever they cough or sneeze (and should not be allowed in the establishment in the first place if they are coughing or sneezing more than occasionally).

It seems to me that the above measures would be both (1) more effective AND (2) much less bad for the economy than massive quarantining.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 13 Mar 2020, 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

^ Those are sensible proposals.

I do see the point about the need to slow down the spread of the virus (via self-quarantining and canceled events) ASAP, to avoid overwhelming health care systems, even if it's not (yet) possible to stop the spread altogether.

(Most of the other measures I suggested above are not currently feasible due to the mask shortage plus the amount of time it would take bars and restaurants to remodel. But hopefully they'll become feasible soon, and hopefully someone in a position of authority will think of them.)

^But they would be good for future reference. Life is learning from your mistakes.

That was Italys' strategy. Big mistake. Quarantine is the only answer.
Don't mean to be alarmist but Corona is not prevented by the face masks and people should not go to restaurants until the pandemic passes. Human life comes before economy, this is how my goverment is operating. The economy is crashing and all resources are invested in saving the senior citizens. Your government fell asleep on duty I fear.

Last edited by Teach51 on 13 Mar 2020, 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That I why I at work greeted a few people this way :

I woke up this morning thinking about “Old World Customs and Traditions”. The coronavirus is another virus that will eventually be added to the yearly load of influenza viruses that strike us every winter season. These influenza viruses have been around for hundreds of years. Over the centuries, many cultures have created and adopted ways to deal with this threat. But the world is moving at such a quick breakneck speed that many of these traditions are being lost and forgotten.

I have talked earlier in this thread about a couple of these – sauna and hot toddy. The Scandinavian’s have created Saunas and part of benefits of this invention has been the ability to invigorate their resistance to the yearly influenza. The Irish and Brits have invented the Hot Toddy, which is a mixed drink made of liquor (such as whiskey) and water with honey, herbs and spices, and served hot. When the flu strikes it attacks the throat, makes it vulnerable. In a sense we use one type of alcohol (in hand sanitizers) to kill the virus on our hands and another type of alcohol (hot toddy) to kill the virus in our throats. It doesn’t take much to accomplish this, perhaps a small shot glass.

But there is another old world tradition that I haven’t really discussed. I didn’t even know it was a tradition. It is called “Airing Out the House”. Airing out the house involves a five- to 10-minute purge of the air in your home by opening the front and back doors (and storm doors) and letting in the fresh air from outdoors.

What I have been turning over in my mind was the advice from the World Health Organization (WHO). They put together a plan called Home care for patients with suspected novel coronavirus (COVID-19) infection presenting with mild symptoms, and management of their contacts. It is essentially a guideline document for sheltering in place. Basically it is "Home care for patients with suspected COVID-19 infection who present with mild symptoms". I had read through their recommendations and two stood out. The first two read:

• Place the patient in a well-ventilated single room (i.e., with open windows and an open door).
• Limit the movement of the patient in the house and minimize shared space. Ensure that shared spaces (e.g., kitchen, bathroom) are well ventilated (e.g., keep windows open).

This didn’t make much sense to me. It is 40 degrees F right now and I should open up the house and let the cold air in! Preppers are recommending stockpiling a little plastic sheeting so it can be used to create a space to quarantine someone who has become infected. Basically if someone is sick, seal them off from the rest of the house. There is a mismatch here.

So I discussed this mismatch with my wife and she told me about an Old World Custom in Poland – Airing Out the House. In the middle of winter with snow on the ground, her mom would open up the house for a few minutes and let the cold air rush through the house.

When it comes to Old World Traditions, sometimes you may not know the exact reason why it is important, you just do it because it is tradition, has been done for generations and has worked.

So I consulted the Internet. In one article, they asked Italians why it is important to “Air Out the House”. This is the response they received from 4 individuals:

- "For those who suffer from dust allergies like me, it's important to air out and shake off the bed sheets so that dust can't accumulate (also hair, skin residue, etc. that all become food for dust mites). When you air out the house, it prevents mold and humidity from forming, you rid the house of foul smells and also let out the excess carbon dioxide."

- "I open the windows to let out the foul air that accumulates in closed areas - smells and germs. Changing out the air. This frequent habit comes from those who live in the countryside. Those who live in big cities don't have this habit because there is a lot of smog and the air outside is usually dirtier than the air inside. Looking at skyscrapers, you can't even open the windows (but of course they will have the proper ventilation built in that create the same effect as an open window."

- "There are three reasons to air out the house:
1. Letting out the humidity that inevitably forms inside the house (in the kitchen, bathroom or shower area, for example) and we humans produce humidity. This humidity, if it isn't let out of the house, will rest on the walls - especially corners - and in closets or the coldest locations of the home where condensation builds.
2. To let out volatile substances that can be emitted by furnishings or electronics.
3. To let out foul odors.
If the home is not aired out, it can make the home feel "heavy" or cause sleepiness. Changing out the air in the cold weather can be done in a quick 5 minutes, better if you can create an air current by opening several windows. In the nicer weather, it's great to air out the home for at least an hour, during the morning or late evening.

- One person said that their grandma always told them (in the Veneto dialect) as a child: "Bisogna che le scoreze le vae fora dai nizioi." Ehm...this would translate more or less to the fact that we need to air out the bed sheets because of the "foul air".

Source: A Breath Of Fresh Air - The Importance Of Fresh Air In The Home

So I gave it some thought and it makes a lot of sense from an influenza perspective. Individuals get the flu and contaminate the inside of a structure. In a low humidity environment during winter, the virus dries out and then free float within the home. Someone enters the structure and breathes the air and the desiccated virus enters the person’s throat and hydrates and then begins attacking them (viral transmission). By airing out the house, the desiccated lethal virus is purged from the house and the foul air is replaced with fresh air. The viral load is dramatically reduced inside the structure – and that not only reduces transmission to others but also aids the person who is battling the infection. It keeps the viral load down so that the individual can more efficiently use their immune system to battle the disease.

This. You'll have to prevent the contact to other people forever or you'll get it either sooner or later. Just care more about yourself if you get a cold now. Take vitamin C, hot bathes and skip any sports except may be chess. Once you are over it you'll be either dead or more likely immune but don't have to worry about it any longer. I guess I'm infected already. It's around here and I have an atypical cold since some days.

Massachusetts governor Charlie Baker has banned all gatherings exceeding 250 people.

Will this measure in anyway help contain the states 106 CV cases,I doubt it.

Can you provide a link to an article detailing exactly what "Italys' strategy" actually was and wasn't? I'm having trouble finding such an article via Google.

I would be very surprised if my ideas were even physically possible in Italy, given the mask shortage, and given that the remodeling of bars and restaurants is not exactly a trivial thing to do. My ideas cannot be implemented instantly, but might be a more-effective, less-damaging-to-the-economy longer-term alternative to quarantines once they become feasible.


Wearing a face mask doesn't do much to protect the wearer, but does help protect other people from any germs that might be carried by the wearer. At the present time, though, given the mask shortage, masks need to be reserved for health care workers. But hopefully that will change.


The crashing economy kills a lot of people too, in all sorts of different ways. Quarantines may be necessary now, but hopefully other, less damaging measures will be considered in the longer term.

It makes sense as a temporary way to slow down (not stop) the spread of the virus, especially by people who are infected but not yet showing symptoms, or by people with only mild symptoms. (Hopefully people with severe symptoms wouldn't be going to large gatherings anyway.)

Slowing down the spread of the virus is crucial, to avoid overwhelming health care systems, even if the longterm total number of cases is not thereby reduced.

National emergency = martial law

Sorry Mona, I really am not being exact, I am in fact being very emotional because my country and my people are suffering greatly now and I really want to emphasise how dangerous this virus is. There is no article, we in my country have many medical students in Italy and we followed the news there with great concern. Instead of tracing the infected peoples' tracks and quarantining all they came in contact with, in restaurants, on trains, in stores etc and stopping incoming tourism that actually spread the virus, the Italians just treated those acutely sick and carried on as usual. Within a few days there were too many critically ill people for the hospitals to deal with and the medical staff literally had to leave people to die. The number of infected people triples every day. Most people in my country were infected in stores or restaurants, people are sometimes infectious without symptoms, partitions in restaurants would be ineffective I believe because the waiters would be exposed, the same bathrooms would be used, the same air would be breathed. In Asia quarantine has proven effective, closing borders and public transport. In Italy it is too late, Chinese doctors have gone to Italy to advise the government and bring respirators and medical aid. We have 300,000 people in quarantine who were exposed to an active virus. The government has a choice, keep the economy robust or let a whole generation of 60-80 year olds die. What would you choose? Thankfully my country is saying to hell with the economy we are going all out to save the older generation. The reason my country is shut down is to save the old people, young people recover quite quickly but old people can get double pneumonia and fibrosis very rapidly which requires hospitalisation and a respirator. If you have tens of thousands of critically ill old people with Corona and only1000 respirators that is what happened in Italy and the medical staff were powerless to save them even in tje excellent health system that they have. Quarantine delays ( not prevent) simultaneous mass infection thus avoiding ( hopefully) the Italian scenario. It is expected that 80% of the population will be actively infected, the aim is is to delay it as much as possible until a vaccine is developed, mass quarantine does that as is proven in Singapore, China and South Korea. I should be more precise, I am sorry.

Found this article that covers some of these points:
https://www.politico.eu/article/coronav ... -survival/

Last edited by Teach51 on 13 Mar 2020, 3:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.