So what do y'all think of Rachel Dolezal?
17 Jun 2015, 12:56 pm
Your point is well taken. Still, “sexual reassignment” cannot really be compared with “racial reassignment.” People who finally decide to undergo sexual reassignment have been through a long struggle coming to terms with being born in the wrong body. Racial reassignment is another matter altogether – it's a choice. Should she be able to make that choice. Sure, why not. Is it a healthy decision? I don't think so.
A good case in point is Michael Jackson? Was it a psychological sound decision to pay plastic surgeons to butcher his face so he appeared more white?
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17 Jun 2015, 1:04 pm
A good case in point is Michael Jackson? Was it a psychological sound decision to pay plastic surgeons to butcher his face so he appeared more white?
If you were the one that identified with another race you might find it's just as difficult. I can't say I know how that person feels, what obstacles they face. The only ones who could know are the ones who feel they are born in the wrong body, for whatever reason. Could be because of gender, race, or appearance. Why trivialize someone's pain by saying, "my pain is much much worse!" That's a very narcissistic way of looking at it. Does someone deserve to have their feelings trivialized simply because they aren't about the "right" issues?
Michael Jackson appeared to be in a lot of psychological pain throughout his life even though he had fame, money. Look at all the folks who will undergo some sort of surgery to alter their appearance in some way this year. Like, if I had something I wanted to have surgery on, I always have the option of saying, you know what, I like this. I don't need to change it. If I were comfortable with myself, that is what I would say. So why do we trivialize someone else's desires and goals by saying they aren't valid or worthwhile, by comparing them to someone else's?
17 Jun 2015, 1:14 pm
I'm not trivializing anyone's pain; merely making a distinction. Personally, I think it's a huge mistake to identify with any race other than the "human" race. It's what keeps us in a state of constant conflict and violence. Yes, I do firmly believe that anyone who would seek to alter their appearance to appear racially different isn't in a healthy state of mind. Having said that, they should be free to do as they please, and will receive no ridicule from me.
Thanks for a stimulating conversation, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
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17 Jun 2015, 3:18 pm
I think there definitely is a comparison between transgender and "transracial", if you were one of the only white kids in an almost all black school(like I was) or vice versa being the only black student in all white school then maybe you'd understand why someone might want to identify as another race. We've gotten to this place now where we tell trans people that they're actually actually gender they identify as and that it isn't a mental illness or delusion to think that they were born in the wrong body so why doesn't that apply to race? I know there are some supposed brain studies about transgender people having a "female/male brain" but those studies seem pretty dubious since I don't believe anybody has a real understanding what makes a person trans or gay or in our case the spectrum at this point in time, our understanding of the brain in general is very limited at this point. As a live and let live type of person, I don't really care what you identify as or whatever costume you dress up in to do it so its hard for me to turn around and say one form of this is okay but not the other.
17 Jun 2015, 3:19 pm
Thanks for your time, VegetableMan.
I just feel passionately about this. I can't help but marvel at how unfair it is. If you feel like you are a woman who should have been born a man or a man who should have been born a woman, you have all these medical advancements to help you along your journey and a society that is less and less judgmental every week HOWEVER if you just happen to feel like you are a black woman trapped in a white woman's body or a white woman trapped in the body of a black one, for that matter, you have virtually NO medical opportunities to do something about it and even less opportunity for support from those around you who seem to just want to stab you in the back for it. Dolezal's immediate family do seem understanding though.
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17 Jun 2015, 4:06 pm
What if it were possible to undergo "racial reassignment" even though I hate the term "racial" at the moment because I see how it harms us. It's like Dolezal was preparing to undergo racial reassignment much like someone would if they were going from one gender to another, only because there's no advances in this area, she, by circumstance is not allowed to transition fully but would if she could. Get what I'm saying? So, like transgenders will tell people they are the gender they are transitioning into, she told people the race she would transition into if the technology was there. So it's not that different at all. She should not be condemned since she has worked hard to help others. That has been a mission of hers. People are going to put her through the ringer then tomorrow praise Jenner to the skies. I don't understand why the would behave like this. What if she had Jenner's fame and money yet no one knew she was really white and she divulged the secret? Would they still hate her?
On Southpark, Kyle so wants to play basketball better than he does that he goes to a doctor for a "Negroplasty." His dad goes down to the doctor to get him to reverse the operation, and instead is convinced to get a "dolphinplasty."
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17 Jun 2015, 5:53 pm
So Jenner lied because he didn't admit his identification with women sooner? There's nothing wrong with Dolezal's embrace of black culture, but she misrepresented herself in her professional career. That's dishonest.
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17 Jun 2015, 7:29 pm
So Jenner lied because he didn't admit his identification with women sooner? There's nothing wrong with Dolezal's embrace of black culture, but she misrepresented herself in her professional career. That's dishonest.
If you really want to get down to it, Jenner misrepresented himself in his professional career when he didn't talk about transitioning. He didn't want his fans to know. He had concerns about it. I will use the profound "he" referring to the time he wasn't going public and no one knew for sure, only some people guessed. He still presented himself as "he" at the time.
Yet you don't see nearly as much outrage over Jenner. You don't see as many reports accusing him of dishonesty and questioning his motives for keeping quiet about it. No one is giving her the third degree about it now even though yes, he didn't let people know for quite a while. They went on watching the Kardashians all the while knowing nothing about Jenner's transition. That is a form of deception and YES the show is a professional occupation.
I am just pointing out the double standard that exists.
17 Jun 2015, 7:37 pm
So Jenner lied because he didn't admit his identification with women sooner? There's nothing wrong with Dolezal's embrace of black culture, but she misrepresented herself in her professional career. That's dishonest.
If you really want to get down to it, Jenner misrepresented himself in his professional career when he didn't talk about transitioning. He didn't want his fans to know. He had concerns about it. I will use the profound "he" referring to the time he wasn't going public and no one knew for sure, only some people guessed. He still presented himself as "he" at the time.
Yet you don't see nearly as much outrage over Jenner. You don't see as many reports accusing him of dishonesty and questioning his motives for keeping quiet about it. No one is giving her the third degree about it now even though yes, he didn't let people know for quite a while. They went on watching the Kardashians all the while knowing nothing about Jenner's transition. That is a form of deception and YES the show is a professional occupation.
I am just pointing out the double standard that exists.
Interesting take on this.
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17 Jun 2015, 7:41 pm
So Jenner lied because he didn't admit his identification with women sooner? There's nothing wrong with Dolezal's embrace of black culture, but she misrepresented herself in her professional career. That's dishonest.
If you really want to get down to it, Jenner misrepresented himself in his professional career when he didn't talk about transitioning. He didn't want his fans to know. He had concerns about it. I will use the profound "he" referring to the time he wasn't going public and no one knew for sure, only some people guessed. He still presented himself as "he" at the time.
Yet you don't see nearly as much outrage over Jenner. You don't see as many reports accusing him of dishonesty and questioning his motives for keeping quiet about it. No one is giving her the third degree about it now even though yes, he didn't let people know for quite a while. They went on watching the Kardashians all the while knowing nothing about Jenner's transition. That is a form of deception and YES the show is a professional occupation.
I am just pointing out the double standard that exists.
Interesting take on this.
I feel the situations are very similar yet people are being unfair about it. I hope they will start noticing the similarities and not condemn Rachel Dolezal. Show her the same support, and all others too.
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05 Jul 2020, 2:27 am
Rachel Dolezal, who posed as black, ‘vindicated’ by Black Lives Matter movement
But Rachel Dolezal, the white woman who claimed to be African-American in 2015, sparking a national scandal, shrugs off the years of shaming that followed, insisting she can help inspire fairer treatment of minorities.
“Racially I identify as human, but culturally I identify as black,” Dolezal said in a phone interview from her home in Spokane, Washington, where she makes a living braiding hair and selling her artwork.
“I do hope that we can rework the vocabulary. That’s part of challenging the race world view.”
Dolezal, a single mom who changed her legal name to Nkechi Amare Diallo in 2017 but goes by Rachel socially, says she’s been energized by the drive for justice in the wake of George Floyd’s death.
But she concedes that the Black Lives Matter movement in her area has declined her offer to get involved, though she says she has good relationships with individual protesters and members of the black community.
“Overwhelmingly, most people I hear from are black or mixed or non-white in some way and a lot of people have said this is your moment, you’re vindicated,” Dolezal said. “I have received hundreds of messages. Most of it’s been overwhelmingly positive.”
She credited a sympathetic 2018 documentary, “The Rachel Divide,” for helping change people’s minds about her.
“The Netflix documentary did help some of the people understand some of the context and backstory. I have received a lot of apologies from people who jumped on the bandwagon on social media,” she said.
In June 2015, Dolezal was claiming to be biracial while serving as president of the NAACP chapter in Spokane when a local news reporter revealed that her parents, Ruthanne and Lawrence Dolezal of Montana, were both white.
The news broke the same month Caitlyn Jenner was celebrated for her transition, but Dolezal lost her NAACP position and teaching job at Eastern Washington University. She struggled financially, she says, relying on friends for money.
Sales from her 2018 memoir, “In Full Color,” helped, but she was later accused of welfare fraud for not reporting $84,000 in earnings to the state’s Department of Social and Health Services.
These days, Dolezal mixes political advocacy — she’s for defunding the police, reparations and defacing “racist” monuments — with promoting her works of art, including a piece she calls “Truth be Told,” which features white busts of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson and Franklin Roosevelt, splattered with red paint.
Enlarge ImageRachel Dolezal
Slaver, Rapist, Murderer, Racist, are their respective captions.
“It’s in a four-inch deep shadow box frame,” said Dolezal, who’s hawking the effort for $1,000.
“All my art is for sale. It’s a hell of deal compared to the banana that was duct-taped to a wall and sold for [$120,000]” she said with a laugh.
Her family includes her son Franklin, 17, and Izaiah, 26, an adoptive brother over whom she obtained legal guardianship. She also has a four-year-old with autism. She says she’s planning to move soon to Tucson to be with Franklin, a student at the University of Arizona.
There, she hopes for a fresh start.
“I have been waiting to move for 15 years,” she said. “It’s been a long time coming.”
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05 Jul 2020, 2:56 am
Frankly she is embarrassing her critics in the AA community. She is clearly more than just an ally. She is the mother of two black children who she is raising on her own (I don't see her critics saying anything about the absent black father).
The blood rule about being African or black is actually made up to start off with, by white people. Just leave her alone I think.
05 Jul 2020, 5:25 am
What if it were possible to undergo "racial reassignment" even though I hate the term "racial" at the moment because I see how it harms us. It's like Dolezal was preparing to undergo racial reassignment much like someone would if they were going from one gender to another, only because there's no advances in this area, she, by circumstance is not allowed to transition fully but would if she could. Get what I'm saying? So, like transgenders will tell people they are the gender they are transitioning into, she told people the race she would transition into if the technology was there. So it's not that different at all. She should not be condemned since she has worked hard to help others. That has been a mission of hers. People are going to put her through the ringer then tomorrow praise Jenner to the skies. I don't understand why the would behave like this. What if she had Jenner's fame and money yet no one knew she was really white and she divulged the secret? Would they still hate her?
I cant figure out what your point is.
Jenner never lied to anyone about anything to do with gender.
Dolezal is a White woman who lied that she was Black.
So how are the two comparable?
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05 Jul 2020, 10:42 pm
@naturalplastic: This thread is, like, 5 years old, and ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo hasn't been here, for over 2 (or, hasn't posted, anyway), so you might not get a response. Just thought you'd wanna know.....
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