Better put your head on a swivel...
27 Sep 2021, 5:44 pm
Axeman wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Axeman wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Physical punishments might be the only thing capable of stopping this, but in the US that was abandoned long ago. What will not stop this is fines and jail.
We’ve already agreed these people are either mentally ill or addicted to drugs. If they aren’t thinking rationally, they also can’t connect the dots from their behavior to the consequence. Meaning, your suggestion won’t stop the undesirable behaviors at all. It would amount to nothing but intentional cruelty.
Seriously, this is what you’ve been holding in your pocket as you press people to answer what their suggestion is? Did you not understand when it was agreed why an unsolvable homeless population exits?
This isn’t a about criminals; it is about mental illness and drug addiction. These people are SICK.
Chicago has had this crap going on for at least the last ten years
Flash mobs of black teens who come downtown, physically attack whites, mob rob high end retailers, smash and break things, etc. I'm sure you will have some sob story about them growing up in a racist world to excuse it but the people they attack don't deserve to be robbed and punched for just going about their lawful business. Again fines and jail do nothing to stop it.
You are mixing stories and problems. Completely different issues cannot be solved the same way.
We were talking about crimes by the homeless or mentally ill.
I’m not going to get into teenage mobs at this time, but I will still insist there are better solutions than yours. You can’t use Singapore or Saudi Arabia for that issue because they are both much more homogenous populations with cultural structures that cannot be replicated here. And, yes, I personally do see you throwing in that particular example at this point in the conversation as a subconsciously (if not consciously) racist choice. Choice of images matter and the time and place of those choices matter. This one does not belong in this unique conversation. You can be better than that.
These mobs are always black teens. That's a fact.
I encourage you to read my FINAL version of the above post. I don’t approve of all my own wording, above.
But you are STILL changing the subject.
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funeralxempire
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27 Sep 2021, 6:11 pm
Axeman wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Axeman wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Axeman wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Physical punishments might be the only thing capable of stopping this, but in the US that was abandoned long ago. What will not stop this is fines and jail.
It's almost like civilized societies decided physical abuse to force compliance was uncivilized or something.
Good on 'em.
In Saudi Arabia stealing that tip jar would cost you a hand. In Singapore dumping a bucket of filth in public would get you seven lashes with a cane wielded by a martial arts expert. As a result these sorts of crimes are non existent there.
And neither of those are places I'd hold up as examples of civilization.
Yes they are. It's not like either one is some malaria infested swamp in the Amazon where the people live in mud huts.
I wouldn't hold the nature of a society's basic housing or it's location against them but corporal punishment shows a distinct lack of civilized thought.
Ok then how do you think tribes of traditional people handle criminals?
Irrelevant. That isn't proof they're civilized, it's proof they're not.
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Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
auntblabby
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27 Sep 2021, 6:45 pm
DW_a_mom wrote:
Axeman wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Physical punishments might be the only thing capable of stopping this, but in the US that was abandoned long ago. What will not stop this is fines and jail.
We’ve already agreed these people are either mentally ill or addicted to drugs. If they aren’t thinking rationally, they also can’t connect the dots from their behavior to the consequence. Meaning, your suggestion won’t stop the undesirable behaviors at all. It would amount to nothing but intentional cruelty.
Seriously, this is what you’ve been holding in your pocket as you press people to answer what their suggestion is? Did you not understand when it was agreed why an unsolvable homeless population exits?
This isn’t a about criminals; it is about mental illness and drug addiction. These people are SICK.
Chicago has had this crap going on for at least the last ten years
Flash mobs of black teens who come downtown, physically attack whites, mob rob high end retailers, smash and break things, etc. I'm sure you will have some sob story about them growing up in a racist world to excuse it but the people they attack don't deserve to be robbed and punched for just going about their lawful business. Again fines and jail do nothing to stop it.
You are mixing stories and problems. Completely different issues cannot be solved the same way.
We were talking about crimes by the homeless or mentally ill.
I’m not going to get into teenage mobs at this time, but I will still insist there are better solutions than yours. You can’t use Singapore or Saudi Arabia for that issue because they are both much more homogenous populations with cultural structures that cannot be replicated here. And … I want you to think about this: I personally do see you throwing in that particular example at this point in the conversation as a likely subconsciously (if not consciously) racist choice. Choice of images matter and the time and place of those choices matter. This one does not belong in this unique conversation. Although I admit perhaps you simply have not really been paying attention? In which case my answer is you should learn to pay attention. Either way, you can be better than this.
This is about reasons one might want to put their head on a swivel. Random attacks against innocent people, and the fact that conventional punishment doesn't stop it. The actual motivation is a side issue. And yes I'd like someone to beat them to a pulp or the National Guard to simply shoot them or something similar.
Kraichgauer
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27 Sep 2021, 7:18 pm
Axeman wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
there are still a few good people in the motor city that need protection from this element. or moved out of there to someplace better.
Chicago isn't all bad. Detroit is.
Which US city has the worst bad areas depends on your criteria. If you mean most violent it's Chicago. If you mean poorest it's New Orleans. If you mean biggest it's Detroit.
Chicago is run by Obama type Democrats and has handgun laws up the ying yang. The Dems there haven't done much about the massive wealth inequality in the city and the gun laws obviously aren't making it safer.
Detroit started falling apart when the auto industry kept insisting the union make concession after concession or they'd leave town. As it turns out, the auto industries began outsourcing, anyhow. With auto workers out of work, small businesses began falling like dominoes, laying hordes of people off. That began in the Reagan years, when industrialists knew a pro business White House would let them get away with it. That's where today's Detroit comes from.
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funeralxempire
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27 Sep 2021, 7:37 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Axeman wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
there are still a few good people in the motor city that need protection from this element. or moved out of there to someplace better.
Chicago isn't all bad. Detroit is.
Which US city has the worst bad areas depends on your criteria. If you mean most violent it's Chicago. If you mean poorest it's New Orleans. If you mean biggest it's Detroit.
Chicago is run by Obama type Democrats and has handgun laws up the ying yang. The Dems there haven't done much about the massive wealth inequality in the city and the gun laws obviously aren't making it safer.
Detroit started falling apart when the auto industry kept insisting the union make concession after concession or they'd leave town. As it turns out, the auto industries began outsourcing, anyhow. With auto workers out of work, small businesses began falling like dominoes, laying hordes of people off. That began in the Reagan years, when industrialists knew a pro business White House would let them get away with it. That's where today's Detroit comes from.
Detroit was also harmed by the failure to realize the '60s were over and that the big landyachts they once sold weren't going to come back in fashion meaning they better invest in the cars people do want to buy instead of using them as loss-leaders to try to sell you something bigger.
Once they had to compete with brands that could match or beat them in terms of value and who put that much value into their small cars as well as the big ones they were f****d. Every time Honda, Nissan or Toyota sold a nicer small car to a first time buyer they were securing someone who would come back for a bigger car when they got older. I'm not so sure K-cars, Cavaliers and Mazda Escorts left the same impression on their customers and that's how they replaced the Pintos and Vegas that had already harmed their brands.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
27 Sep 2021, 8:18 pm
Axeman wrote:
This is about reasons one might want to put their head on a swivel. Random attacks against innocent people, and the fact that conventional punishment doesn't stop it. The actual motivation is a side issue. And yes I'd like someone to beat them to a pulp or the National Guard to simply shoot them or something similar.
The actual motivation IS the issue (IMHO as someone whose job it was to help two young humans learn appropriate behavior). There is no way to solve these issues on a long term basis WITHOUT understanding motivation. None.
One thing I learned as a parent is exactly how important it is to understand the motivations behind the behavior. Read the motivation wrong, and you will cause new issues instead. Attempts to control and punish quickly backfire.
A lot of our issues come down to refusing to care about or solve what actually underlies an issue.
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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
27 Sep 2021, 9:11 pm
The Ozarks has white skaters that attack people.
https://www.ky3.com/2021/07/29/witnesse ... ringfield/
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auntblabby
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Kraichgauer
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27 Sep 2021, 10:03 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Axeman wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
there are still a few good people in the motor city that need protection from this element. or moved out of there to someplace better.
Chicago isn't all bad. Detroit is.
Which US city has the worst bad areas depends on your criteria. If you mean most violent it's Chicago. If you mean poorest it's New Orleans. If you mean biggest it's Detroit.
Chicago is run by Obama type Democrats and has handgun laws up the ying yang. The Dems there haven't done much about the massive wealth inequality in the city and the gun laws obviously aren't making it safer.
Detroit started falling apart when the auto industry kept insisting the union make concession after concession or they'd leave town. As it turns out, the auto industries began outsourcing, anyhow. With auto workers out of work, small businesses began falling like dominoes, laying hordes of people off. That began in the Reagan years, when industrialists knew a pro business White House would let them get away with it. That's where today's Detroit comes from.
Detroit was also harmed by the failure to realize the '60s were over and that the big landyachts they once sold weren't going to come back in fashion meaning they better invest in the cars people do want to buy instead of using them as loss-leaders to try to sell you something bigger.
Once they had to compete with brands that could match or beat them in terms of value and who put that much value into their small cars as well as the big ones they were f****d. Every time Honda, Nissan or Toyota sold a nicer small car to a first time buyer they were securing someone who would come back for a bigger car when they got older. I'm not so sure K-cars, Cavaliers and Mazda Escorts left the same impression on their customers and that's how they replaced the Pintos and Vegas that had already harmed their brands.
And yet, the auto executives blamed everyone else for this failure: they blamed the Japanese, they blamed unionized workers, they even blamed their customers. They just didn't blame who was really responsible; those they saw in the mirror.
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
27 Sep 2021, 10:50 pm
@Axeman, I feel I need to apologize for getting on you about switching subjects. Seems I forgot you had started the thread.
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28 Sep 2021, 3:11 am
Axeman wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
@Axeman, I feel I need to apologize for getting on you about switching subjects. Seems I forgot you had started the thread.
To my mind it was related for stated reasons.
In some ways, I was trying to avoid taking about Chicago without having to say that I wanted to avoid taking about Chicago. Chicago has become so overused by conservatives and the discussions tend to involve so many potentially racist undertones that there simply is no way, in my opinion, to have a productive conversation after a dialogue reaches “but Chicago” territory. I don’t want to go into those fights; they never resolve anything, and everyone leaves mad or hurt.
So. I’ve now manned up and said it.
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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
28 Sep 2021, 10:26 am
DW_a_mom wrote:
Axeman wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
@Axeman, I feel I need to apologize for getting on you about switching subjects. Seems I forgot you had started the thread.
To my mind it was related for stated reasons.
In some ways, I was trying to avoid taking about Chicago without having to say that I wanted to avoid taking about Chicago. Chicago has become so overused by conservatives and the discussions tend to involve so many potentially racist undertones that there simply is no way, in my opinion, to have a productive conversation after a dialogue reaches “but Chicago” territory. I don’t want to go into those fights; they never resolve anything, and everyone leaves mad or hurt.
So. I’ve now manned up and said it.
Alright. I don't believe law abiding people should have to change anything to accommodate these criminals and to me you seem to be saying that your progressive agenda can fix it and these attacks are a consequence of not being on board with it. Chicago provides clear evidence that isn't the case.
.
