Page 4 of 5 [ 71 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

TheRobotLives
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,092
Location: Quiet, Dark, Comfy Spot

04 Feb 2022, 12:53 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Link, please.

I intentionally did not provide a link, because I didn't want to link to a NAZI website.

just search for "NSM 25 point plan"


_________________
Then a hero comes along, with the strength to carry on, and you cast your fears aside, and you know you can survive.

Be the hero of your life.


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,151
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

04 Feb 2022, 1:25 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Link, please.

I intentionally did not provide a link, because I didn't want to link to a NAZI website.

just search for "NSM 25 point plan"


All I could find was this:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSDAP ... _manifesto


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,072
Location: Right over your left shoulder

04 Feb 2022, 2:11 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Link, please.

I intentionally did not provide a link, because I didn't want to link to a NAZI website.

just search for "NSM 25 point plan"


No luck if you search on Google, it's all about the OG Nazis.

I found it immediately using DuckDuckGo.

https://www.nsm88.org/25-point

Quote:
The NSM 25-Point Plan

We demand the unification of all Whites in the United States on the basis of the right to self-determination of our people. We shall be governed by our people alone.

We will not permit any behaviors antithetical to the values of National Socialism. We will safeguard our children from violence, exploitation, abuse, and neglect. The future of our race extends from our White family and we will protect our family from any behaviors which may corrupt it. Our children are our strength and our future.

We demand our own territory for the sustenance of our people.

Only Whites may become citizens. Consequently, since Jews are not White, no matter what they may claim, no Jew may become a member of our nation.

Those who aren’t citizens are only able to reside in our nation as guests under the authority of legislation for foreigners.

Voting rights are to be enjoyed by adult, White male land owners, alone. We also demand therefore that all official appointments are only granted to adult White male citizens. We oppose the corrupt custom of filling posts merely with a view to partisan inclinations, without consideration to character or capability.

We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to nourish the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.

Any further immigration of non-Whites will be prevented. We demand that all non-Whites who have immigrated since 1960 be required immediately to leave the Reich.

All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.

The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all. Consequently we demand:

Abolition of unearned incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.

In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore, we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of speculation in land. This gratuitous expropriation concerns only the creation of legal opportunities to expropriate if necessary, land which has been illegally acquired or is not administered from the viewpoint of national welfare. This is primarily directed against the foreign land-speculation companies, including Jewish.

We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, black marketers and so forth are to be punished with death.

We demand substitution of an Aryan law in place of the Roman law serving a materialistic world order.

The State is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious White to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform to the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.

We demand the abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.

We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of an English press, we demand, that:

All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the English language be members of the race:

Non-English newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to be published. They may not be printed in the English language.

Non-Whites are forbidden by law any financial interest in English publications, or any influence on them, and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-White concerned.

Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.

We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of Aryans. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within the framework.

For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.



That's racist as f**k and likely to be rejected by most leftists. It's not socialist because of it's inherent racism, workers of the world unite was never white workers of the world unite, everyone can go f**k themselves.

It doesn't matter if they have a few points that are agreeable to leftists, it's absolutely worth subjecting to a litmus test and rejecting as having failed it. The fact that they're also appalling to the cult of the invisible hand doesn't mean they're not appalling to the left.

Generally speaking when the left offers utopia it isn't entirely focused on a specific nation or ethnic group to the detriment of everyone else. That's even the crux of left-wing criticisms of social democracy, that the countries that make it work still participate and support all the things that get neo-liberal places like the US condemned while also outsourcing their defence to the US and their worst conditions to the third world, just like neo-liberals.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Real power is achieved when the ruling class controls the material essentials of life, granting and withholding them from the masses as if they were privileges.—George Orwell


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,151
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

04 Feb 2022, 2:25 am

^^^
I dare say that restricting the vote to just white, property owning adults is hardly keeping with any real socialist or liberal agenda.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


TheRobotLives
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,092
Location: Quiet, Dark, Comfy Spot

04 Feb 2022, 2:30 am

funeralxempire wrote:
That's racist as f**k and likely to be rejected by most leftists. It's not socialist because of it's inherent racism,

No true scotsman fallacy?

No true socialist has racist policies?


_________________
Then a hero comes along, with the strength to carry on, and you cast your fears aside, and you know you can survive.

Be the hero of your life.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

04 Feb 2022, 2:43 am

This argument is kinda silly isn't it? am i missing something or is this one running joke



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,151
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

04 Feb 2022, 2:45 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
That's racist as f**k and likely to be rejected by most leftists. It's not socialist because of it's inherent racism,

No true scotsman fallacy?

No true socialist has racist policies?


As the modern left has adopted civil rights as a virtue, then no, I wouldn't expect them to as any official organization.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,072
Location: Right over your left shoulder

04 Feb 2022, 2:46 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
That's racist as f**k and likely to be rejected by most leftists. It's not socialist because of it's inherent racism,

No true scotsman fallacy?

No true socialist has racist policies?


If you're familiar with the history of socialism rejection of that stuff has always been a core, defining feature and was established well before any 20th century dictatorships that used the word socialist in their names rose to power.

While I'm not a fan of Leninism, it's probably fair to consider those dictatorships a form of socialism even if it's not one I'd endorse.

On the other hand, fascism and the ideology of the Nazi Party both are fundamentally at odds with one of the core things that libertarian socialists, M-L types, democratic socialists and social democrats have consistently agreed upon and that, when they've failed to live up to have opened themselves up to criticism from other leftists.

It'd be fair to point out where left wing dictatorships have failed to live up to or even violate those ideals, I'll concede that without hesitation because I agree with those criticisms. Nationalist dictatorships that define themselves entirely around ethnic considerations have always been contrary to socialist ideals for as long as what can be called socialist ideals have existed.

It isn't really a fallacy when it's a defining feature, like no true mammal lacks mammary glads is a fact, not a fallacy.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Real power is achieved when the ruling class controls the material essentials of life, granting and withholding them from the masses as if they were privileges.—George Orwell


Last edited by funeralxempire on 04 Feb 2022, 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,072
Location: Right over your left shoulder

04 Feb 2022, 2:52 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
That's racist as f**k and likely to be rejected by most leftists. It's not socialist because of it's inherent racism,

No true scotsman fallacy?

No true socialist has racist policies?


As the modern left has adopted civil rights as a virtue, then no, I wouldn't expect them to as any official organization.


The western left largely respects liberal concepts of civil rights, but even leftist movements that don't tend to (at least officially) tend to embrace the idea that one's rights aren't tied to one's ethnic background, caste or racial category.

States like the Soviet Union and PRC certainly didn't/don't always respect those ideals in practice but just like many other places with problems with institutional racism they claimed to in theory.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Real power is achieved when the ruling class controls the material essentials of life, granting and withholding them from the masses as if they were privileges.—George Orwell


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,151
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

04 Feb 2022, 3:00 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
That's racist as f**k and likely to be rejected by most leftists. It's not socialist because of it's inherent racism,

No true scotsman fallacy?

No true socialist has racist policies?


As the modern left has adopted civil rights as a virtue, then no, I wouldn't expect them to as any official organization.


The western left largely respects liberal concepts of civil rights, but even leftist movements that don't tend to (at least officially) tend to embrace the idea that one's rights aren't tied to one's ethnic background, caste or racial category.

States like the Soviet Union and PRC certainly didn't/don't always respect those ideals in practice but just like many other places with problems with institutional racism they claimed to in theory.


Certainly.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


TheRobotLives
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,092
Location: Quiet, Dark, Comfy Spot

04 Feb 2022, 8:38 am

cyberdad wrote:
This argument is kinda silly isn't it? am i missing something or is this one running joke

It's phenomena that these racist groups always claim to be socialists and never capitalists.

Image


_________________
Then a hero comes along, with the strength to carry on, and you cast your fears aside, and you know you can survive.

Be the hero of your life.


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,072
Location: Right over your left shoulder

04 Feb 2022, 12:57 pm

It's almost like the current ones are named after the ones from a century ago and that the ones from a century ago were hoping to appeal to people who liked some of the ideas socialists had, but not all the egalitarian workers of the world stuff that defines socialism.

For the original parties it was dishonest labelling, for current parties it's imitation of the originals.

Keep in mind, the Bolsheviks were publicly called the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party and yet they weren't a social democratic party. It's almost like you can't trust what a party called itself to reflect their ideology in those days.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Real power is achieved when the ruling class controls the material essentials of life, granting and withholding them from the masses as if they were privileges.—George Orwell


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

04 Feb 2022, 7:00 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
This argument is kinda silly isn't it? am i missing something or is this one running joke

It's phenomena that these racist groups always claim to be socialists and never capitalists.

Image


Well the Nazis were in-group socialists so they go with national socialists because thats what nazis called themselves. Monkey see monkey do. Nothing complicated there.

Remember also the Nazis weren't hung up over the term socialists like post-WWII Americans who indoctrinated by anti-communist politicians who right through the 1940s/50s were conducting an inquisition against any form of organising (insert unions, civil rights) which were conveniently labelled socialist/commie.



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 37,934
Location: Long Island, New York

04 Feb 2022, 8:38 pm

3 arrested after violence at Nazi rally in Orange County, deputies say

Quote:
The Orange County Sheriff’s Office announced the arrests of three men Friday who are accused of attacking a Jewish victim during a Nazi rally near Alafaya Trail and Waterford Lakes Parkway.

Deputies arrested Joshua Terrell, 46; Jason Brown, 47; and Burt Colucci, 45. Colucci is also the leader of the National Socialist Movement, the Kissimmee-based group behind the rally, according to the Anti-Defamation League.

According to the affidavit for an arrest warrant, deputies responded to the rally on Jan. 29. Around 1:30 p.m., deputies said they were made aware that a young man had been pepper-sprayed by the rallying white nationalists.

Deputies said they spoke with the victim who said prior to the attack he was driving on North Alafaya Trail, preparing to make a right turn onto Waterford Lakes Parkway when he saw the rally.

As he drove by, the victim said one of the NSM members spat into the sunroof of his car. At that point, according to investigators, the victim got out of his vehicle and got into an argument with the group — displaying a Star of David charm on his necklace and announcing that he was Jewish.

Deputies said, as the victim argued with the Nazi group, one of them — who the others called “Grandfather” — tried to get into his car, but the victim was able to get back into the vehicle before that could happen. The victim said he continued to argue with the man who tried to get into his car, records show. As the two argued, Grandfather spat at the victim, the victim threw some crumpled paper at the man and Grandfather spat on him again, records show.

At this point, deputies said the victim got out of the car and a shoving match ensued. As that happened, other members of the Nazi group joined in, pepper-spraying the victim and hitting him.

Deputies said the victim also dropped his phone during the melee, which was then picked up by one of the NSM members, Brown, and thrown into a storm drain.

Investigators said that cell phone video from the scene showed the NSM members shouting antisemitic slurs at the victim throughout the encounter. Deputies said the video also showed Colucci spitting on the victim multiple times while shouting slurs before pepper-spraying the victim as he tried to escape back into his car.

Records show Terrell was also caught on video bragging about hitting the victim during the encounter.

Deputies said they also found a social media post from Colucci which read, “Orlando event today. A 75 year old (sic) man with us was physically attacked by an open Jew. The problem was addressed and the Jew was dealt with. He won’t forget today for a long time.”

Brown faces a charge of grand theft.

Terrell and Colucci both face battery charges. The sheriff’s office is recommending those charges also be hit with the hate crime enhancement due to the slurs which were used by the Nazi group during the attack.

Colucci already faces charges in Arizona, where police said he threatened a group of Black men with a gun outside of a hotel.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

04 Feb 2022, 10:36 pm

Burt Colucci, 45. Colucci is also the leader of the National Socialist Movement, the Kissimmee-based group behind the rally, according to the Anti-Defamation League.

Why do so many italians, Greeks and hispanics join and lead such groups? They aren't exactly nordic aryans :lol:
Self-esteem issues I suspect.



Aspie1
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,749
Location: United States

04 Feb 2022, 10:59 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Why do so many italians, Greeks and hispanics join and lead such groups? They aren't exactly nordic aryans :lol:
I don't know about the Greeks and the Hispanics, but Italy fought WWII on the same side as Germany. In fact, the term "Axis Powers" derives from something Hitler once said: "The Earth will soon spin on a new axis going from Berlin to Rome."

To answer your whole question, it's really simple: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Those nationalities felt safer amongst Nazi-affiliated groups than they did amongst Antifa and its ilk. Similarly, it's why I joined QAnon back in 2020. I never held in them in high regard, at least not until then. But they respect America and its freedoms far more than the Covid-worshipping liberals do.


_________________
86 the 46
Don't tread on me!
No aid or comfort to the liberals. No way.
My rights don't end where your feeeelings begin!
Then they came for me. But by then, there was no one left to object.
If you're conservative when you're young, you have no heart! If you're liberal when you're mature, you have no brain!


Last edited by Aspie1 on 04 Feb 2022, 11:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.