Comet Elenin (passing by 16/10) trailed by eight objects?

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Beauty_pact
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08 Sep 2011, 10:25 pm

Look at the second last paragraph on this page (the writer of the article states the sources, by the way):

www.iampleasant.com/2011/09/elenin-and- ... om-nature/

"Recently a warning was issued by former NASA consultant and US space expert Richard C. Hoagland that Elenin, is under “intelligent control” and heralds a warning to all humanity of a greater global catastrophe. NASA space scientist David Morrison has reported pretty much the same though he has added that these asteroids and comets will pass at safe distances from Earth. Interestingly, some scientists had previously speculated that the two distinct rows of 8 small circular objects trailing Elenin were UFO’s belonging to an as yet unidentified “extraterrestrial civilization.” Though supported by Hoagland, this claim seems to be just fanciful (or wishful) thinking."


Thoughts...?



Fnord
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08 Sep 2011, 10:36 pm

Richard C. Hoagland has provided no valid material evidence to support his claims.


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Beauty_pact
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08 Sep 2011, 11:02 pm

What is "valid", "material" evidence, from your point of view? I'm not saying he is right - I just am interested in hearing what the criticism is based on; what valid or not valid evidence is, is often seen very differently, between people. And what about David Morrison's statements, then, as well as the other scientists?



Fnord
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08 Sep 2011, 11:13 pm

It is not criticism. He offers no evidence - no close-up pictures of the objects that would show any meaningful details, no electromagnetic signatures, no images of the alleged "intelligences" allegedly controlling the objects ... no evidence whatsoever. Only assumptions, claims, innuendos, and unanswerable rhetorical questions. Such people are more interested in being believed (for the attention) than in actually telling the truth (for the integrity).

While absence of material evidence is not evidence of material absence, it is sufficient cause for reasonable doubt; and his "evidence" is certainly absent. So, instead of arguing over the meaning of words, how about simply producing evidence that will support the claims?


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Beauty_pact
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09 Sep 2011, 12:19 am

Of course, there also is speculation on if it even is a comet:

http://news.exopoliticsinstitute.org/in ... hes-earth/

I haven't read through it all, yet, though, as I am too lacking in energy to do so, at this time, but it seems to be a very interesting read for later. Any comments or thoughts on this addition to the discussion?

And for the record, I wasn't "arguing over words" - I was asking for clarification.



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09 Sep 2011, 2:00 am

Anything from Richard C. Hogland should be read purely for entertainment purposes. If he is ever right about anything it will be by coincidence alone. It is common for comets to break up as they boil away and pass gravitational fields that put stress on them. Shoemaker-Levy 9 is a prime example of this.


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Fnord
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09 Sep 2011, 10:02 am

Richard Charles Hoagland is little more than an author of fantasy stories, who takes some of his own ideas a little too seriously. His claims lack evidence, and his "discoveries" are purely speculative. He lacks both credentials and credibility.

Quote:
In 1997, Hoagland received the Ig Nobel Prize for Astronomy, a parody award given for outlandish or "trivial" contributions to science. In November 2006, Conscious Media Network interviewed Hoagland ... has made numerous claims about the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life, supported by digitally reprocessed photographic evidence...


The man almost single-handedly defines the term "Pseudo-Science".

:roll:


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mntn13
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09 Sep 2011, 12:00 pm

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/ca/ shows a table of objects close to or approaching earth. none of them show up as having intelligent control or other objects trailing them.
there are going to be solar storms this year though, that's verifiable. maybe tomorrow. (sorry off subject)



Beauty_pact
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09 Sep 2011, 3:03 pm

mntn13 wrote:
there are going to be solar storms this year though, that's verifiable. maybe tomorrow. (sorry off subject)


I brought it off subject, myself, with my previous post, so do take it off subject, if you want to. Might make for some interesting discussions.



Inuyasha
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09 Sep 2011, 11:23 pm

John_Browning wrote:
Anything from Richard C. Hogland should be read purely for entertainment purposes. If he is ever right about anything it will be by coincidence alone. It is common for comets to break up as they boil away and pass gravitational fields that put stress on them. Shoemaker-Levy 9 is a prime example of this.


Shoemaker-Levi 9 proved how destructive comet debris, asteroids, etc. can be (depending on composition). I'm just glad it hit Jupiter and not Earth.



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10 Sep 2011, 3:04 am

The eight mysterious objects are obviously Santa's eight tiny reindeer; he left the gate open AGAIN! Sylkat :x



Beauty_pact
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10 Sep 2011, 5:43 am

Sylkat wrote:
The eight mysterious objects are obviously Santa's eight tiny reindeer; he left the gate open AGAIN! Sylkat :x


O.o That'd be fun if true, as that'd probably mean an extra good jul/yuletide/Christmas, this year, but that just isn't possible, since Santa/Father Christmas/jultomten has nine reindeers, not eight; Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner, Blitzen and Rudolf.



Beauty_pact
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10 Sep 2011, 7:57 am

I just found this. Allegedly, the belief of strange objects behind Elenin is supported by Chinese scientists, as well, and an Argentine one:

http://noticias.terra.com.ar/cientifico ... 0RCRD.html

Here's a Google translation:

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... 0RCRD.html

Does anyone maybe know of where to find the Chinese report? If it is available on the net, that is, or if it ever even has existed.


By the way, for those who maybe don't feel like reading the whole of the article I linked to, in a previous post, then here is an excerpt:

Quote:
Under the electric universe model, it is understandable how the sun would be so dominant in planetary alignments associated with large earthquake activity. This is consistent with Dr Omerbashich’s own view that: “Proximity of the Earth to the alignments of other celestial bodies, particularly of those involving the Sun, can result in intense seismic activity…” Similarly, the electric universe model helps explain why Mercury and Venus also play prominent roles in alignments associated with seismic activity on Earth. What’s very important is noting that larger planetary bodies such as Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus, have not played prominent roles in planetary alignments. Yet mysteriously, Elenin has.

For example, on March 8, 2011, Elenin formed an alignment with the Earth and Mercury, 3 days before the devastating Japan magnitude 9 earthquake (see fig 3). How can Elenin play such a prominent role in seismic activity if it is just a small comet with little mass as NASA argues?

Dr Omerbashich’s model does point to a large planetary body given Elenin’s effect on Earth from distances as far away as Uranus. This has been cited by researchers believing Dr Omerbashich’s paper supports the brown dwarf explanation for Elenin. There is, however, a major problem with the brown dwarf explanation. If Elenin was a brown dwarf, its huge mass (not yet known) and velocity of approximately 50,000 miles per hour during perihelion of 0.46 AU (closest point to the sun on September 10, 2011) would give it a massive amount of momentum. Elenin’s momentum would carry it far past the sun and the inner solar system, well into the outer solar system before the sun’s gravity could slow and change Elenin’s direction enough to make it swing back past the sun in a very long and narrow loop.

According to JPL’s simulation for Elenin’s orbit, however, it in fact swings around the sun in a 90 degree arc when it passes into (August 1, 2011) and leaves Earth’s orbit (October 16) (see figure 4). A brown dwarf would take far longer than the less than three months it took for Elenin to change its direction by 90 degrees in passing by our sun while within Earth’s orbit.

Elinin’s projected orbit into and out of the solar system shows that its path is similar to many long period comets where the sun swings it back almost 180 degrees (see figure 5). The JPL simulation tells us that Elinin’s momentum is not that large since the sun’s gravity so quickly changes its direction. Elenin is therefore not a brown dwarf. Its 90 degree swing around the sun before passing the inner solar system suggests Elenin has the mass of a comet. Yet paradoxically, Elenin’s distant effect on Earth’s seismic activity is similar to what would be expected of large planetary body. So what exactly is Elenin?



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10 Sep 2011, 8:55 am

Hi, everyone, Beauty Pact, thanks for the reply, but in Clement Moore's poem, only 8 reindeer were named and enumerated; Rudolph was a much later addition, first mentioned in the Gene Autry song, 'Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer'..not sure if Autry wrote the song, or only recorded it, but he made a TON of money off of it! How do we know that this so-called 'comet' is not, in truth, Santa's new super-sized sled, he's taken it out for an extended test drive, and the reindeer are just running along behind for the fun of it? Sylkat :lol :



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10 Sep 2011, 9:39 am

Belief proves nothing, even when many people share the same belief.

The mere fact that a belief is popular does not validate that belief.

Absence of evidence is sufficient cause for reasonable doubt.

Due to lack of evidence, it is more reasonable to doubt the Hoagland claim than to believe it.


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10 Sep 2011, 10:48 am

Beauty_pact wrote:
Look at the second last paragraph on this page (the writer of the article states the sources, by the way):

www.iampleasant.com/2011/09/elenin-and- ... om-nature/

"Recently a warning was issued by former NASA consultant and US space expert Richard C. Hoagland that Elenin, is under “intelligent control” and heralds a warning to all humanity of a greater global catastrophe. NASA space scientist David Morrison has reported pretty much the same though he has added that these asteroids and comets will pass at safe distances from Earth. Interestingly, some scientists had previously speculated that the two distinct rows of 8 small circular objects trailing Elenin were UFO’s belonging to an as yet unidentified “extraterrestrial civilization.” Though supported by Hoagland, this claim seems to be just fanciful (or wishful) thinking."


Thoughts...?


Is this strange body in a Keplerian Orbit? If not it is either the figment of someone's fevered imagination or it is an intelligently piloted space vehicle not of Earthly origin. I favor the former. I say this is bu**sh*t..

ruveyn