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androbot01
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25 Aug 2015, 9:02 am

BBC: Old Dominion fraternity suspended for sexually suggestive signs

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Old Dominion University's Sigma Nu fraternity has been suspended after sexually suggestive signs were hung on the group's off-campus home.
The signs appeared on Friday as new students moved onto the campus in Norfolk, Virginia, for the coming school year.
"Rowdy and fun. Hope your baby girl is ready for a good time," a sign read.
The others read: "Freshman daughter drop off" and "Go ahead and drop off mom too ..."
"Messages like the ones displayed ... by a few students on the balcony of their private residence are not and will not be tolerated," said Ellen Neufeldt, the university's vice president of student engagement and enrolment.


Image

I'm glad the school is speaking against this, but it's kinda disturbing.



blauSamstag
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25 Aug 2015, 9:36 am

It's tasteless and stupid but i don't see how rape is implied



androbot01
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25 Aug 2015, 9:42 am

blauSamstag wrote:
It's tasteless and stupid but i don't see how rape is implied


Specifically "rape culture." As presented on Geek Feminism:

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It frequently includes objectifying women or portraying social relations as a "war of the sexes", both of which lead to dehumanization . Dehumanization, in turn, leads to sexual violence against victims being condoned as they are mentally considered "objects" instead of "a fellow human" . In this way, sexism that does not explicitly deal with rape can still contribute to rape culture, especially if the sexism implies that women are primarily or exclusively valued for their desirability to heterosexual men, or that sexual relationships follow a predator/prey model.


So I'm suggesting these banners contribute to a dehumanization of women, which can lead to assault.



Dillogic
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25 Aug 2015, 10:55 am

Just words.



androbot01
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25 Aug 2015, 11:22 am

So words have no power? You used words to disagree with me, some people use words to convince others of their views. Words represent thoughts, thoughts lead to actions. And the actions these guys are promoting with their words are predatory.



Sweetleaf
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25 Aug 2015, 11:22 am

At least it displays what kind of guys these are who live there....so female students who are not into shallow players can steer clear. But IDK do people expect better from 'fraternities', yes the truth is many who go on to become successful graduates indulge in plenty disgusting behavior on their spare time and I hear they have some pretty weird rituals they force on new members of fraternities in order to 'test their worthiness'...including taking advantage of girls to sleep with them....though from what I hear the female equivalent to fraternities are pretty nasty themselves. Even very high end colleges have and encourage these cults....some of our politicians/government officials come from them.


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Dillogic
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25 Aug 2015, 11:30 am

androbot01 wrote:
So words have no power? You used words to disagree with me, some people use words to convince others of their views. Words represent thoughts, thoughts lead to actions. And the actions these guys are promoting with their words are predatory.


Yep. Zero power (the only power they have is what you allow them to have over you).

Actions are all that matter. Actions don't need words to initiate them.

Thoughts also have zero power.



androbot01
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25 Aug 2015, 11:37 am

Dillogic wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
So words have no power? You used words to disagree with me, some people use words to convince others of their views. Words represent thoughts, thoughts lead to actions. And the actions these guys are promoting with their words are predatory.


Yep. Zero power

So how are we having this conversation then?

Quote:
(the only power they have is what you allow them to have over you).

Words can for sure be used to influence the behaviour of others.

Quote:
Actions are all that matter. Actions don't need words to initiate them.

Actions have more power, but words have some as well.

Quote:
Thoughts also have zero power.

True. Thoughts do not necessarily lead to action; I think probably the lesser of the time. I think words spoken to another have more power than thoughts. And actions have the most power.



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25 Aug 2015, 11:52 am

Frat boys are often crude and interested in having sex with women? Stop the presses!


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androbot01
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25 Aug 2015, 11:58 am

translation: men are often predatory towards and rape women, no news there.

maybe Fugu is right.



Dox47
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25 Aug 2015, 12:10 pm

androbot01 wrote:
translation: men are often predatory towards and rape women, no news there.

maybe Fugu is right.


Your translator is busted, and if you're listening to the blowhard-fish, you're further gone than I thought.

Try this:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... on/402226/
Quote:
The answer begins with one interpretation of the banners. For some observers, they aren’t just vulgar, rude, suggestive, bawdy, ribald, derogatory, or uncouth––they’re an example of “rape culture.” As Old Dominion’s President John Broderick put it, “While we constantly educate students, faculty and staff about sexual assault and sexual harassment, this incident confirms our collective efforts are still failing to register with some.” Nearly every press outlet that has covered the controversy connected it to ongoing efforts to reduce the number of rapes that occur on campus.

One Old Dominion student told Jezebel, “I feel very strongly about how the attitude towards sexual assault on campuses is met with a slap on the wrist … As a woman, it’s frustrating to see the media bring awareness to the issue and then witness something related in your own community/school and see that nothing is changing.”

To other observers, those reactions make little sense.

As they see it, a college’s sexual-assault problem is best gauged by the number of sexual assaults. They regard the banners as an obvious joke. And they insist that the humor is rooted in confronting parents, who like to guard the virginity of their daughters, with the trope that they go off to college and have sex with frat guys. In this telling, nothing about the trope implies a non-consensual encounter. And regardless of the joke’s meaning, they believe it irrational to operate as if a sophomoric prank that seems like something a couple 19-year-olds cooked up in a few hours reveals their attitudes toward rape; the likelihood that they would rape someone; campus attitudes toward rape; or the success of campus anti-rape efforts.

“I’m usually in the position of defending extremely offensive speech on the grounds that it is protected by the First Amendment,” Robby Soave wrote at Reason. “In this case, I struggle to grasp what was even so monstrous about the banners. Hope your baby is ready for a good time, oh, mom too! is certainly crude and in bad taste. But no specific person is being maligned, threatened, or disparaged. And some frat brothers are eager to have sex with girls—is this surprising?”

He added that, “associating the banners with sexual assault, as Broderick did, is a considerable exaggeration. Sigma Nu members certainly didn’t threaten anyone with sexual assault; putting up some mildly suggestive signs does not constitute an act of violence. The banners don’t even clear the sexual-harassment bar. They aren’t severe, pervasive, objectively offensive, or directed at anyone in particular.”

Where do I come down? It’s lamentable that some women arrived on their college campus only to be greeted by signs treating them as sexual objects. These immature 19-year-olds displayed bad judgment, but so do the adults who are reacting as if they were stockpiling GHB. Pop culture is filled with material far more vulgar and offensive, including content that actually does transgress against the value placed on consent.


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Dillogic
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25 Aug 2015, 12:17 pm

Since we're talking, words must have power! Only in the power of talking on an internet forum about a set subject. It's not doing anything else.

The power of rape has nothing to do with whether you talk about it or not, or whether people post lewd messages here or there. What makes rape is someone forcibly putting sex on someone else.



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25 Aug 2015, 12:22 pm

It's more "Alpha male" culture than rape culture. Alpha male culture is all about doing and taking what you want without any concern for repercussions that don't directly affect you. It's a sickness, but in all honesty any female that sees those signs and decides to enter knows exactly how the members of that fraternity are going to treat her. If she's smart she'll steer clear, and if enough females steer clear then the culture dissipates because it's not getting any play.
It's like an internet troll, the more negative attention it gets the more it hunkers down and the stronger it gets. Let's face it the article didn't make members of that frat feel guilt or remorse, they were probably high fiving each other since they made the news.



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25 Aug 2015, 12:28 pm

The message on the left is creepy and does, to me, imply rape.
"Hope your baby girl is ready for a good time" - 'cause we're going to do what we like with her, regardless.

The other two messages don't bother me. In fact, I find them cute and funny.



androbot01
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25 Aug 2015, 12:29 pm

Dox47 wrote:
In this telling, nothing about the trope implies a non-consensual encounter.

untrue:

Rowdy and fun. Hope your baby girl is ready for a good time.

Hope implies that if not she won't enjoy her good time. Which implies coersion.

Freshman daughter drop off.

Obviously sarcastic, but clearly indicates intention.

Go ahead and drop off Mom too.

hmmmm.... what could this mean?


Fugu is right and I'm dissappointed.



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25 Aug 2015, 12:58 pm

^ Oh get over it already. :roll:
It's a frat house full of horny dudes as frat houses traditionally have been.
Believe it or not, girls often like to f**k as well.
The house in question is private property and off campus so it really should be none of the university's business. As long as they're getting thier tuition they should just STFU and suck it up.


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