Migrant Crisis in US

Page 1 of 2 [ 21 posts ] Go to page 1, 2 Next

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

25 Oct 2023, 4:06 am

This is starting to be as a big a news story as much as the Ukraine war and HAMAS attacks

Quite clearly residents of Chicago don't want 1200 migrants/day from being housed in their backyards
protests make that loud and clear

TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,554

25 Oct 2023, 6:59 am

As big a news story as the Ukraine war and Israel/Palestine war? I don’t think so.

_________________
“The darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing.”
— from Four Quartets by T.S. Eliot

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

25 Oct 2023, 7:46 am

Heh, the bussing them to sanctuary cities was a political masterstroke, it was easily ignored when it was limited to mostly red border states.

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,045

25 Oct 2023, 7:51 am

This happens in western Europe too. The numbers are overwhelming.

A lot of people in the UK voted for Britain to leave the European Union back in 2016, and that was because they wanted to address immigration which wasn't possible under EU rules and the courts they have for human rights.

The issue hasn't been addressed since for whatever reason, and immigrants are coming into the UK at record levels.

At least that looks bad for the conservatives in the UK, so they can be booted out at the next general election, since not even their supporters like them at the moment, seemingly.

_________________
“I was ashamed of myself when I realized life was a costume party and I attended with my real face” - Franz Kafka

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

25 Oct 2023, 6:44 pm

Interesting the stark divergence of the demographics of Amundsen Park and Brighton Park.

The protestors in Brighton Park are 100% white, Asian and Hispanic (the council have a deaf sign interpreter and hispanic intepreters
The protestors in Amundsen park are 100% Black

Nicely illustrates how the city of Chicago is divided as a legacy of red lining. Oh the irony.

ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York

26 Oct 2023, 3:56 am

In New York it has been a bigger story than the Ukraine War for months, but not as big as the Israel-Hamas War for now.

_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”

Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.

Recidivist
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Jan 2023
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,851
Location: He/him/his

26 Oct 2023, 9:31 am

blitzkrieg wrote:

A lot of people in the UK voted for Britain to leave the European Union back in 2016, and that was because they wanted to address immigration which wasn't possible under EU rules and the courts they have for human rights.

Until the Bill of Rights is passed the Government has stated that it “is committed to membership of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) . Brexit will not prevent cases being taken to the ECHR, but the repeal of the Human Rights Act might render ECHR decisions less effective and the UK will not be bound by changes to EU law.The UK Human Rights Act (HRA) states that UK courts 'must take into account' (not necessarily follow) any judgment, decision, declaration or advisory opinion of the European Court of Human Rights. European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) decisions may still be relevant to our law but the British Bill of Rights will determine just how relevant they are.

blitzkrieg wrote:

At least that looks bad for the conservatives in the UK, so they can be booted out at the next general election, since not even their supporters like them at the moment, seemingly.

First time I've seen someone think conservatives being booted out would address the "immigration issues" that you think voters of Brexit wanted.

_________________
Another man's freedom fighter, one man's terrorist is - Yoda (probably)

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

26 Oct 2023, 4:24 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

In New York it has been a bigger story than the Ukraine War for months, but not as big as the Israel-Hamas War for now.

The NY migrant crisis has reached Australian papers too as this is a problem that affects our country.

BTW Australia just had its first boatload of refugees in 8 years. After claiming they would never lock up children our left wing labour government has no locked up a 17 year old in a detention centre

It seems the volume of asylum seekers globally is peaking again if the first boatload of refugees have traversed the Indian ocean to arrive in Australia since 2014.

goldfish21
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

27 Oct 2023, 2:03 pm

The numbers are f**k all compared to what's coming if climate scientists are correct in their statements that 1.1-1.3 BILLION people will become the largest mass migration of humans ever from uninhabitable hot spots by year 2050. Tens of thousands/month to the Southern border is sweet f**k all to absorb compared to when quite literally E v e r y o n e is heading North for survival. Northern hemisphere countries are going to have to make some serious choices between letting people settle in inhabitable areas and building new cities to house entire countries' populations OR murdering everyone that migrates for survival. Something like that. Think it's a challenging problem to have now.. ? lol it ain't s**t yet. Fast forward 20 years and then we'll long for the good ol' days of 2023 when there were just a few newcomers to figure out what to do with.

_________________
No :heart:

for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,078
Location: New York City (Queens)

03 Nov 2023, 1:26 pm

Which countries are most of these immigrants coming from these days?

That's the question we should really be asking, and whether there is anything that can be done (e.g. by one or more international organizations) to help alleviate conditions in those countries, so that fewer people have to leave.

According to Why New York Is Experiencing a Migrant Crisis by Will Freeman, October 5, 2023, on the website of the Council on Foreign Relations:

Quote:

What are the regional factors at play?

Within Latin America, there are several push factors that drive migrants north. First, there are the well-known crises: the implosion of Venezuela’s economy under the authoritarian rule of President Nicolás Maduro, which has driven an exodus of more than seven million people and counting; the lingering effects of Haiti’s 2010 earthquake coupled with the country’s ongoing gang warfare, troubles that have pushed close to two million Haitians to flee the country; and the deepening dysfunction of Cuba’s economy, which is responsible for the outflow of one million migrants and refugees from the island.

There’s also the “ordinary” dysfunction of poorly functioning market economies and states, such as inequality and hunger in southern Mexico and northern Central America; surging criminal violence, particularly in Ecuador; and climate change–related disasters. The majority of Latin American migrants have resettled within the region, although a growing number of them are now heading for the United States due to the scarcity of economic opportunities.

Also driving migration are the growth of legal and illegal businesses that move migrants across borders—which now constitute multinational, multimillion-dollar enterprises—and growing information on social media about U.S. labor shortages and wages. U.S. foreign policy has an important role to play in reducing the intensity of these drivers, but it can hardly be expected to fix intractable crises and economic problems that are decades in the making.

I notice that one of the sources of migrants is Cuba. Well, one thing we in the U.S.A. can do is to ask our government to end the decades-old United States embargo against Cuba, an embargo which has been condemned by the U.N. General Assembly.

_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 03 Nov 2023, 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

goldfish21
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

03 Nov 2023, 2:22 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

You would need a time machine to go back in time and unf**k the planet from human caused rapid climate change.

People aren't just leaving because of political instability/economic opportunities. They are leaving because of rising temperatures, likely permanent drought which results in a lack of food & drinking water. They aren't making lethally dangerous treks across deserts for fun & games.. they're risking their lives for a chance at survival in a new place that has water to irrigate crops.

Either Northern Hemisphere countries create a system for rapid immigration and integration of climate change refugees OR the powers that be decide to murder them upon arrival. There aren't all that many other options available, really. People are coming ever faster Because They Have To Leave Or Die where they're from.

_________________
No :heart:

for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.

blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,045

03 Nov 2023, 2:55 pm

Recidivist wrote:

blitzkrieg wrote:

At least that looks bad for the conservatives in the UK, so they can be booted out at the next general election, since not even their supporters like them at the moment, seemingly.

First time I've seen someone think conservatives being booted out would address the "immigration issues" that you think voters of Brexit wanted.

Where did I say the Conservatives being booted out would address immigration issues?

The Conservatives have failed to control immigration and since this is one of the policies that, out of the two major parties (The Labour Party & The Conservative Party), they were most entrusted with addressing, it is probably an issue that will deprive them of votes come election time.

The Labour Party have never been a party of anti-immigration, so they will continue letting mass immigration go on, and at least they have not pretended they were a party that would control immigration, as the Conservatives have.

Neither party will address the issue of mass immigration, in essence, from my POV.

_________________
“I was ashamed of myself when I realized life was a costume party and I attended with my real face” - Franz Kafka

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,078
Location: New York City (Queens)

03 Nov 2023, 3:17 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

Does Canada have any habitable newly-warmed-up regions?

Be that as it may, I think we need to take a multi-pronged approach to the migrant crisis. Yes, Western countries need to become better at absorbing immigrants, but I also think we need to do more to help other countries so that not as many people need to move in the first place. I don't think desertification due to climate change is the sole cause of migration; I don't think that's the main problem in Cuba, for example.

goldfish21
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

03 Nov 2023, 4:18 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

Southern Canada has plenty of inhabitable land that isn't built on. But it's cold most of the year. Cities could be built, though. It's warmer than WAY up North or over in Siberia, that's for sure.

Sure, some places need assistance. But that's not where all the people coming to the USA's Southern border are coming from. They're fleeing places that are no longer inhabitable and make up the majority of people coming to your borders. Cuba is a drop in the bucket. Numbers of climate refugees will continue to accelerate over the years until e v e r y o n e is coming because if they stay put they almost certainly die. I know I'd get walking if staying put meant death.

_________________
No :heart:

for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

03 Nov 2023, 6:49 pm

Canada sounds a lot like Australia, 90% of Australia is essentially unoccupied.

The problem in terms of migration is that 60% of modern migrants coming to Australia end up in either Melbourne or Sydney and 90% choose to live in one of 5 capital cities. I believe the problem is similar in Canada.

Government services in Melbourne is already stretched beyond being manageable, There are no new schools being built, public facilities, trains, buses are over subscribed. The roads are 200 times worse than what I remember when I first got my drivers licence. Queues for government housing or rental properties stretch out onto the street. House/home auctions now attract hundreds.

Even illegal migrants entering Austtalia by boat are required to live in regional areas. But almost all of them gravitate back to capital cities, Taxpayers foot the bill for more public housing.

So why can't all that empty space be converted into living space? because the few Australians living in regional areas have kids who dom't want to live in regional areas and seek work in the capital cities. Regional Australia only attracts what we call "grey nomads" older people wanting to retire in the countryside. Often visiting regional towns you meet the entire population is over 50 years of age.

In any case what government is going to pay to build cities in the middle of nowhere? it costs money. For this reason I support a restrictive immigration policy. We simply can't afford it any more.

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

03 Nov 2023, 7:45 pm

It's not about climate change, it's about money, most of the mass migration going on these days is economic in nature.

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

Page 1 of 2 [ 21 posts ] Go to page 1, 2 Next

Jump to:

Migrant Crisis in US Post Reply New Topic

Migrant Crisis in US