Obama and the middle east

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_obama_mid ... fD_D0azJV4

"Obama's predecessor, former President George W. Bush, launched wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which prompted a massive backlash against the U.S. in the Muslim world."

I have a problem with PAUL SCHEMM, the Associated Press, and this article. The Muslim world's hatred of us goes back decades before Bush was even in the spotlight.

- 1983 United States Embassy Bombing in Beirut, Lebanon kills 63.
- 1983 Marine Barracks Bombing in Beirut kills 241 U.S. Marines.
- 1986 TWA Flight 840 bombed on approach to Athens airport; 4 Americans, including an infant, are killed.
- 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing On April 6, the La Belle discotheque, a known hangout for U.S. soldiers, was bombed, killing 3 and injuring 230 people, for which Libya is held responsible.
- 1993 World Trade Center bombing
- 1993 Failed New York City landmark bomb plot
- 1995 Oklahoma City bombing (domestic; "At Nichols' [McVeigh's Accomplice] trial, evidence was presented indicating that others may have been involved." It would not surprise me if these 'others' were professional terrorists would funded the operation and provided materials and explosives... but of course this has not been proven true.)
- 1995 Bombing of military compound in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
- 1997 A terrorist opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine".
- 1998 U.S. embassy bombings
- 1999 Ahmed Ressam is arrested on the United States-Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington; he confessed to planning to bomb the Los Angeles International Airport as part of the 2000 celebration terrorist attacks plot
- 2000 The last part of the 2000 celebration terrorist attacks plot fails, as the boat meant to bomb USS The Sullivans sinks
- 2000 USS Cole bombing

and then...

- 2001, September 11th

See a pattern?

I don't fault Obama for trying but he needs to understand that their hatred of us is now a Generation old. Do you know how hard it is to up-root a Generation of hatred for a culture? It's nearly impossible.

I'm more upset with the AP for trying to rewrite history!

Hmmmm. I read the article and I didn't see anything that indicated an effort to rewrite history.
Did I miss it?

"Obama's predecessor, former President George W. Bush, launched wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which prompted a massive backlash against the U.S. in the Muslim world."

That statement is worded in such a way that the blame is laid at the foot of Bush. It is a small snippet but it's in there so that the reader may not even notice it but it is an insinuation. I dislike Bush, but I also dislike dishonesty.

Did that clarify?

Last edited by kxmode on 27 Jan 2009, 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Bush launched the wars. This is not revisionist history, it's plain, ordinary fact. Had he not given the orders, there would be no wars.

Of course. No doubt. But that's not what I'm addressing. I'm referring to that passage in the article that suggests the Muslim world totally hates us because of the two wars, thanks to Bush. The problem here is there was already a "massive backlash against the U.S. in the Muslim world" before the War. September 11th is proof of that. The event occurred less than a year after Bush assimilated the Presidency.

I think it is intellectually dishonest to suggest the Muslim world all of sudden hated us because of the Afghan and Iraq wars. The root hatred goes back decades...

Last edited by kxmode on 27 Jan 2009, 3:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.

The implication of the quote is that the 'Muslim world' did not hate us before the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Kxmode's timeline clearly shows this to be false.

Oy...

When is he going to roll out his "Hug A Suicide Bomber" campaign?

Honestly, his naïve "hope" for "change" is about to get its teeth kicked in by reality.

He actually believes that if America is nicer to Muslims, their religion will change, and the Quran will no longer call us "infidels" for not being Muslims, and will no longer tell them to "kill the infidel wherever you find him".

When he essentially says to terrorists, "It's okay, it's okay, we won't hurt you!", their uniquely characteristic response will be: "Fine, but we're going to keeping hurting you!" Ah, well, history will judge its diplomatic dolts.

That's right. There was peace in America on September 11th!

Last edited by Ragtime on 27 Jan 2009, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It goes back much further, actually. I'll have to post a more complete timeline later, but America's fight with Muslims goes back at least to "the shores of Tripoli" and that event which the Marine's Hymn refers to -- The Barbary Wars of the early 17th century:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripoli

If you’re knowledge of history only goes as far back as September 11, 2001 then when you read a passage like that you’ll see “Bush’s wars is the reason the Muslims hate us”. This is how they can rewrite history in the minds of many.

You need to educate yourself. Don’t let the media mold their warped history in your mind.

I'm only referring to recent events in the last 50 years specifically related to modern terrorism (i.e. bombings, kidnappings, beheadings, killing innocents, and so forth).

I mean yeah if you really wanted to go that far back you could say it's related to the Christain Crusades, because in the minds of many Muslims they probably see "the west" as one and the same... even though America didn't exist during the Crusades.

9-11 was the action of a small group of specific individuals, and cannot be ascribed as part of a "massive backlash in the Muslim world."

Before Bush, there was a significant amount of good will, which dwindled to near nothing in many countries. Most in the Arab world disliked some parts of American foreign policy, but they had a large measure of regard for America. Iraq is a big part of the change. And so is Bush's decision to abandon the role of an neutral 'honest broker' in the Middle East, and instead approve of anything Israel decided to do. And so is the paranoia in the US against anyone who looks like they might be a Muslim - the stories of Sikkhs who were harrassed, beaten, detained illustrate the degree of irrational fear; people around the world heard of such incidences, and it lowered their regard for the US.

Here's a list of Muslim attacks in the U.S. over the past 37 years:

Date Country City/State Killed Injured Description
4/14/1972 USA New York, NY 1 3 Ten members of a local mosque phone in a false alarm and then ambush responding officers, killing one.
1/19/1973 USA Brooklyn, NY 1 1 Muslim extremists rob a sporting goods store for weapons, gunning down a police officer who responds to the alarm.
7/18/1973 USA Washington, DC 8 2 Nation of Islam members shoot seven members of a family to death in cold blood, including four children. A defendant in the case is later murdered in prison on orders from Elijah Muhammad.
10/19/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 1 Nation of Islam terrorists kidnap a couple and nearly decapitate the man, while raping and leaving the woman for dead.
10/29/1973 USA Berkeley, CA 1 0 A woman is shot repeatedly in the face by Nation of Islam terrorists.
11/25/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A grocer is killed in his store by Nation of Islam terrorists.
12/11/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A man is killed by Nation of Islam terrorists while using a phone booth.
12/13/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A woman is shot to deah on the sidewalk by Nation of Islam terrorists.
12/20/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 Nation of Islam terrorists gun down an 81-year-old janitor.
12/22/1973 USA Oakland, CA 2 0 Nation of Islam terrorist kills two people in separate attacks on the same day.
12/24/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A man is kidnapped, tortured and decapitated by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1/24/1974 USA Oakland, CA 4 1 Five vicious shooting attacks by Nation of Islam terrorists leave three people dead and one paralyzed for life. Three of the victims were women.
4/1/1974 USA Oakland, CA 1 1 A Nation of Islam terrorist shoots at two Salvation Army members, killing a man and injuring a woman.
4/16/1974 USA Ingleside, CA 1 0 A man is killed while helping a friend move by Nation of Islam terrorists.
3/9/1977 USA Washington, DC 1 1 Hanifi Muslims storm three buildings including a B'nai B'rith to hold 134 people hostage. At least two innocents were shot and one died.
7/22/1980 USA Bethesda, MD 1 0 A political dissident is shot and killed in front of his home by an Iranian agent who was an American convert to Islam.
8/31/1980 USA Savou, IL 2 0 An Iranian student guns down his next-door neighbors, a husband and wife.
1/31/1990 USA Tuscon, AZ 1 0 A Sunni cleric is assassinated in front of a Tuscon mosque after declaring that two verses of the Qur'an were invalid.
11/5/1990 USA New York City, NY 1 0 An Israeli rabbi is shot to death by a Muslim attacker at a hotel.
1/25/1993 USA Langley, VA 2 3 A Pakistani with Mujahideen ties guns down two CIA agents outside of the headquarters.
2/26/1993 USA New York, NY 6 1040 Islamic terrorists detonate a massive truck bomb under the World Trade Center, killing six people and injuring over 1,000 in an effort to collapse the towers.
3/1/1994 USA Brooklyn, NY 1 0 A Muslim fires on a vanload of Jewish boys, killing one.
3/23/1997 USA New York, NY 1 6 A Palestinian leaves an anti-Jewish suicide note behind and travels to the top of the Empire State building where he shoot seven people in a Fedayeen attack.
4/3/1997 USA Lompoc, CA 1 0 A prison guard is stabbed to death by a radical Muslim.
10/31/1999 USA Near Nantucket 217 0 An Egyptian airline pilot runs a planeload of 217 passengers into the water after uttering a Qur'anic prayer.
3/17/2000 USA Atlanta, GA 1 1 A local imam and Muslim spiritual leader guns down a deputy sheriff and injures his partner.
9/11/2001 USA Shanksville, PA 40 0 Forty passengers are killed after Islamic radicals hijack the plane in an attempt to steer it into the U.S. Capitol building.
9/11/2001 USA Washington, DC 184 53 Nearly 200 people are killed when Islamic hijackers steer a plane full of people into the Pentagon.
9/11/2001 USA New York, NY 2772 251 Islamic hijackers steer two planes packed with fuel and passengers into the World Trade Center, killing hundreds on impact and eventually killing thousands when the towers collapsed. At least 200 are seriously injured.
3/19/2002 USA Tuscon, AZ 1 0 A 60-year-old man is gunned down by Muslim snipers on a golf course.
5/27/2002 USA Denton, TX 1 0 Muslim snipers kill a man as he works in his yard.
7/4/2002 USA Los Angeles, CA 2 0 Muslim man pulls out a gun at the counter of an Israeli airline and kills two people.
9/5/2002 USA Clinton, MD 1 0 A 55-year-old pizzaria owner is shot six times in the back by Muslims at close range.
9/21/2002 USA Montgomery, AL 1 1 Muslim snipers shoot two women, killing one.
9/23/2002 USA Baton Rouge, LA 1 0 A Korean mother is shot in the back by Muslim snipers.
10/2/2002 USA Wheaton, MD 1 0 Muslim snipers gun down a program analyst in a store parking lot.
10/3/2002 USA Montgomery County, MD 5 0 Muslim snipers kill three men and two women in separate attacks over a 15-hour period.
10/9/2002 USA Manassas, VA 1 1 A man is killed by Muslim snipers while pumping gas two days after a 13-year-old is wounded by the same team.
10/11/2002 USA Fredericksburg, VA 1 0 Another man is killed by Muslim snipers while pumping gas.
10/14/2002 USA Arlington, VA 1 0 A woman is killed by Muslim snipers in a Home Depot parking lot.
10/22/2002 USA Aspen Hill, MD 1 0 A bus driver is killed by Muslim snipers.
8/6/2003 USA Houston, TX 1 0 After undergoing a religious revival, a Saudi college student slashes the throat of a Jewish student with a 4" butterfly knife, nearly decapitating the young man.
12/2/2003 USA Chicago, IL 1 0 A Muslim doctor deliberately allows a Jewish patient to die from an easily treatable condition.
4/13/2004 USA Raleigh, NC 1 4 A Muslim man runs down five strangers with a car.
4/15/2004 USA Scottsville, NY 1 2 In an honor killing, a Muslim father kills his wife and attacks his two daughters with a knife and hammer because he feared that they had been sexually molested.
6/16/2006 USA Baltimore, MD 1 0 A 62-year-old Jewish moviegoer is shot to death by a Muslim gunman in an unprovoked terror attack.
6/25/2006 USA Denver, CO 1 5 Saying that it was 'Allah's choice', a Muslim shoots four of his co-workers and a police officer.
7/28/2006 USA Seattle, WA 1 5 An 'angry' Muslim-American barges into a local Jewish center and shoots six women, one of whom dies.
10/6/2006 USA Louisville, KY 4 1 In an 'honor' attack, a Muslim man rapes and beats his estranged wife, leaving her for dead, then savagely murders their four children.
2/13/2007 USA Salt Lake City, UT 5 4 A Muslim immigrant goes on a shooting rampage at a mall, targeting people buying Valentine's Day cards at a gift shop and killing five.
1/1/2008 USA Irving, TX 2 0 A Muslim immigrant shoots his two daughters to death on concerns about their 'Western' lifestyle.
7/6/2008 USA Jonesboro, GA 1 0 A devout Muslim strangles his 25-year-old daughter in an honor killing.

And here's from this week:

2009.01.26 (Dera Ismail Khan, Pakistan) - Sunni radicals detonate a bicycle bomb in a public area, killing five civilians.
2009.01.26 (Baidoa, Somalia) - Four people are killed when al-Shabaab terrorists hurl a grenade into a bus stop.
2009.01.26 (North Waziristan, Pakistan) - Religious militants kidnap a man, chop off his hand and then execute him.
2009.01.25 (Narathiwat, Thailand) - A factory worker is shot to death by Mujahideen while driving with his wife.
2009.01.24 (Gaza, Pal. Auth.) - Hamas executes a 46-year-old human rights activist.
2009.01.24 (Ashkelon, Israel) - A young Arab mother is stabbed to death over suspected immorality

Tune in daily for your dose of terror: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

Last edited by Ragtime on 27 Jan 2009, 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It never was the religion of peace. It is the religion of submission.

ruveyn

Bogus list, faulty reasoning, invalid conclusion.

1) The Nation of Islam is not Islamic - they are a home-grown black nationalist movement that has Islam in their names, but no other (real) Islamic group recognizes Elijah M as a prophet. The fact that NOI avoids pork is not enough to make them Islamic. When Malcolm X traveled on the pilgrimage to Mecca, he realized that NOI was a racist, non-Islamic group. He converted to Islam, and was killed by NOI cult members.

2) Most of the 'Muslim snipers' in that list refer to the DC sniper and his son ... he was a member of the "Nation of Gods and Earths" movement - which was a cult made up of former members of NOI. The group teaches that men are Gods, and that they should claim their celestial power. That is not Islam. Further more, it appears that all of that madman's shootings are listed separately, sometimes without identifying him (e.g. "Clinton, MD 1 0 A 55-year-old pizzaria owner is shot six times in the back by Muslims at close range.") This is not only poor description, it is an attempt to mislead.

3) So called 'honor killings' are despicable, but are more a part of cultural traditions or individual weaknesses. And shouldn't we make a list that includes Susan Smith and all the angry or despondent 'Christian' parents who kill or abuse their kids as an indication of what Christianity is like? Or should we have a double standard??

4) The 18 year old that opened fire in the SLC mall might be closer to the trench coat mafia or the Korean guy that went bonkers at Virginia Tech. He was in Bosnia for the war, was brutalized (by 'Christians') and lost his father. But he fits the pattern of a seriously maladjusted teenager gone berserk more than that of a ideological suicide bomber.

5) The 62 year old Jewish movie goer was shot by a man who had resisted his family's forcible attempts to have his mental illness treated. According to police, it was a random shooting of the closest target.

There is no doubt that there has been some violence in the US instigated by Islamic extremists. It should be resisted, and it should be discussed - but honestly. That list is not an attempt to do so.

That's true. Of course, you will find deniers of even that statement.