Another Animal Species Extinct

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That's where things get interesting. What is meant by suffering? What's the meaning of "good" and "evil"?

I happen to have another friend that has long solved this puzzle. He solved it in his 20s, so that's about 30 years ago. As it turns out, as long as there is reproduction and the concept of generations, "good" and "evil" (which includes suffering) are necessary consequences. They are directly related to what makes tribes (or species) survive, in the long run (meaning "projectable" time horizon, given the tribe's experience limitation in time and space.) Therefore, the concepts of "good" and "evil" are results of evolution. Now, the thing is, there is a time horizon (and spatial limitation size as well) involved in the concept of "good" and "evil." So, when there is social unrest, it may appeal to some people to go out and do looting. To them, that's "good." But what happens is those people are simply looking into the immediate short term. When you have a group of people forming what we call a country (which means larger scope in space), and looking into arranging behaviors (laws) for decades or hundreds of years, then what's "good" or "bad" acquires a totally different dimension, and looting becomes part of evil or bad. When you involve all humans and looking at the very long-term, we arrive at what we call "universal values."

This is all directly related to Alex Wissner-Gross' "Equation of Intelligence." http://michaelscharf.blogspot.com/2014/02/a-new-equation-for-intelligence-f-t-s.html.

F = T ∇ Sτ

where a time scale τ (tau) is introduced. That is, what we value, needs a time scale for the horizon. We cannot do anything beyond what we know. We cannot deal with the "unknown unknown." We can only project for the "known unknown."

Given all that, then life is not precisely "meaningless." Given our past experience, given what we know, there is a direction to guide us where to go. And I understood that point already, when I was in high school. (Before Wissner-Gross' equation.)

That's the power of math. Ha ha.

But the T (time?) variable in the Alex-Wissner-Gross equation pertains to good/bad concept in human society pertaining to time between (what you call) "looting" before reaching a social consensus as universal values across an entire population. These concepts don't apply to species fecundity reproduction and survival which is based on gene flow and natural selection.

Gosh, you are stuck at individual level. Evolution has never been about the survival/reproduction of an individual. It has always been about the survival of a species. I mean, we went through WWI, WWII, etc. where millions of people died. It's not about the survival of individuals. It's about the survival of the tribe. You are missing the most basic understanding of evolution. You have to get to the cooperative games as exemplified by the blond girl scene in "A Beautiful Mind."



A disorderly society doesn't do well in the long run. I mean, gangster groups pop up all the time, again and again in history. But they don't survive for too long. Look at the situation of ISIS, too.

Ahhh I see what you mean. So the individual ambition/group disorder (looting) is a form of disruptor (like a comet/volcano) that ultimately leads to universal values, initially driven by tribalism? (I think chimps and some mammals do this as well) but leading to stable populations.

A rather odd tangent.

They estimate that a billion Australian animals have perished in the bushfires.
Some species will be pushed towards extinction, some say.
The small solace I have is the realisation that after this initial natural atrocity,
The amount of suffering in those areas will be enormously reduced for the foreseeable future, simply due to the sparse fauna.

Where there is no life,
There is no pain.
Simples.

Oblivion,
Thou art my luver.

China has no turtles left, they devoured them all supposing they promote longevity.

To be fair it's one soft shell species that's extinct. The Chinese government is funding breeding programs, particularly for Marine turtles.

There are also groups trying to save turtle populations
http://www.china.org.cn/china/2018-05/2 ... 510412.htm

Umm, I’ll have to dig out my International Reptile Conservation Fund journal to give you the totals but no, most are gone.
They were trying to breed China Girl,one of the last Yangtze River turtles but she is old and I think maybe only two males left.

Yes I think that's one of the rare species. But I don't dispute other species might be in danger due to population/habitat/food

BTW have you heard of the Passenger pigeon and American Bison? once both species were common all over the American plains. Both of these animals were hunted by American settlers The bison numbers dropped from 30 million to 300 in the space of a few decades. The passenger pigeon once was so common they used to blot out the sun. Today they are extinct.

Yes, I saw the last stuffed passenger pigeon at the St.Louis zoo.I think they called her Martha.
So,IRCF Journal of Reptiles and Amphibians conservation and natural history Sept 2009.
Big Headed Terrapin last seen in 1960, might still exist, but not if a hungry person finds it first.
Black Necked Terrapin, same as above.
Chinese Soft shelled turtle, vanished in the wild, now just farmed for food.
Three banded box terrapin last seen in wild 1984.
In all, around twenty species of reptiles and amphibians are assumed vanished or extinct.Most eaten out of existence.
They began to eye our turtles,
biologist Dale Jackson is quoted as saying, “If we allowed it, the Chinese— more than one billion Chinese —-could and probably would eat every single turtle in existence in Florida in one year.”
Florida now has strict regulations on turtle harvests.

Good to hear. BTW as a reptile boffin what do you think about the python epidemic in the Florida everglades?

Feel bad for the snakes and the stuff they are eating.I don’t see how they can stop them from multiplying, hard to control anything that gets loose in a swampy area.

Eating turtles making turtles live longer?
I see an inherent flaw in that concept.

You do understand why I don't have a problem with extinction?
Are you religious?

I’m a lazy Buddhist/pagan.
It’s all suffering,it’s the main truth of existence.