York Mosque praised for offering EDL protesters tea

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The Wiki bears some of that out.

Every single person I have ever spoken to that felt the need to defend Muslims as vociferously as this - even ignoring real and valid criticisms - were Muslims or demented Islamist apologists.

A horrifying story from the Netherlands:

I can't say I'm completely surprised that PVV is the largest party in the country at the moment, according to opinion polls.

Quite extrordinary

For an Australian, you know an awful lot of ex-muslims. I mean where do these guys come from?

For anyone who thinks that India is somehow safer than US and Europe -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te ... s_in_India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_attacks
Just because they don't make international headlines, doesn't mean there are no Indians dying in these attacks.
BTW, not every wiki is wikipedia.

Still those 3 answers nowhere in sight.

Ex-muslims strike again! Not just that, every ex-muslim has memorised every world city's muslim population!
Wanna know a time-honoured tradition - "If you don't hate muslims, you are a muslim." Yeah, like that's such a huge insult.
BTW, wikipedia has a very different take on this taqiyya that you mentioned.

Last edited by Dhawal on 11 Jun 2013, 12:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

So you're saying you haven't met any real people in your life, and everyone you know is a fake? Well I wish you have a very long life, and that you have the opportunity to meet some real people. That might brighten you up a little.

vociferous (adj.) - vehement, clamorous, noisy, loud, uproarious
If you go through the thread, you'll see who this term applies better to.

Last edited by Dhawal on 11 Jun 2013, 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If that heading doesn't spell fear-mongering, what does?

Disapproval!! Quite horrifying.
It's obvious that fear-mongers cherry-pick incidents that show muslims in a bad light, while ignoring overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

And why do you say that?

Ok boys, enough fooling around. Lets get straight to the point. You've been dodging most of the questions I asked, because answering them would expose the gaping holes in your logic. And while refusing to answer the questions, you also refuse to stop posting more half-truths, conspiracy theories and lies. All this while somehow trying to maintaing the illusion of real and valid criticism. Well, you're not fooling anybody.

Let's get straight to the point. Do you hate muslims or not? If you say that even half of them are bad, then we have something to talk about. If you say most of them are good ('not bad' will do), then we can end this discussion. I've asked this question to Tequila before, but he may have missed it. Though the post was hard to miss. This time I'm asking both of you. Do you say that most muslims are bad, or do you say most of them are good. Just straight answers, no beating around the bush. If you can't answer it, then atleast have the decency to post no more of your hateful sh**.
It's time to own up, or shut up.

I can think of Rosengård in Malmö, Tower Hamlets in London, perhaps Muslim areas of Bradford (I've seen photos of Manningham Lane, and it looks like Saudi), and some areas of Paris and Marseille (and probably Brussels) that are probably like this too.



No, these are the facts.

Am I fearmongering when I provide proof of an assertion?

If I say that an opinion poll (answered by UK Muslims) said that 61% of those polled support the idea of gay people being imprisoned or murdered, would you say that this is fearmongering?

It is (as far as I know) the truth.

If I say that, say, 26.5 million Romanians and Bulgarians get full rights to live in the UK next year, am I fearmongering or telling the truth?

The people who say that we're "fearmongering" tend to say that we're making it sound like the entire population of these countries will descend on Britain on day one. Which is nonsense. We (In UKIP) point out that that's ridiculous, but it remains the fact that Romanians and Bulgarians get the exact same rights that UK citizens get from next year.

It's not fearmongering if something is actually true and is actually happening. It's telling the truth.

Can you see how such views (from wherever they come) might be directly threatening to our tolerance of homosexuality in a liberal democracy where people can choose whom they wish to sleep with (and indeed marry)?

If 61% of people from, say, Lancashire (which is the county I'm from in England) said the same thing, we'd never hear the end of the criticism and abuse that would be levelled at us. We would become the freak show of Britain. And rightly so.

If a poll was done of in Britain - with a cross-section of people representative of the entire population - and 40% thought that Indians (or Muslims for that matter) were unclean and they didn't want them in their country, would you claim that anyone highlighting this fact was scaremongering and hated British people? Because I'm British, and if it was me I'd be absolutely horrified that people held these views about Muslims.

Would you like to live in a place like Schilderswijk? Or Rosengård in Malmö? Or the immigrant districts in Stockholm where there has just been a full week of rioting over... absolutely nothing? Or Tower Hamlets? Or the Muslim areas of Bradford? (Bradford is divided along sectarian lines. Hindus and Sikhs live in different parts of the town to Muslims.)

These ghettoes are only a Muslim problem. Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Poles and other ethnic minorities do not behave like this - if they did, I would highlight it. The Sikh community in Britain is not completely without its problems either, by the way, and they haven't always been entirely peaceful (Bezhti anyone?)

If you were a woman (Muslim or non-Muslim), would you appreciate being told to cover up or be seen as a target for rape or indecent assault?
Would you like to be told to get out of this district, because this is a Muslim area?
Would you like to be spat at and abused for, example, being gay?
Would you like to live in an area like this and be an Orthodox, Zionist Jew?
Would you like to live there and be an open Hindu? And risk the constant threats and beatings? (As I say, in Bradford and in other cities, Hindus don't live with Muslims. They live in different parts of the city, segregated.)

Now, I'm not saying that all Muslims behave like this - it would be ludicrous and offensive to say that they were (especially as I can see with my own eyes what they behave like, and Muslims are a people with a diverse set of beliefs like any other). Even the leader of the sodding EDL doesn't think like that. Recently, he's been praising Ahmadi Muslims and highlighting the severe bigotry that is meted out to them by Sunnis. He has sharply and strongly condemned violence against Muslims, and wants nothing to do with those that do. He said something interesting today on Twitter: Ahmadis wanted to build a mosque in the city. 900 people complained against the mosque being built. 850 of those people were Muslims.

You're confusing criticism of some really quite shocking behaviour by thugs and fundamentalists who want to dominate their host countries with a hatred of everyone that is Muslim.

If we thought like you do about Islam, we wouldn't have built our free society over many years by facing up to violent Chrisitianity - i.e. the church, the clergy, and our tyrannical monarchical rulers.

We would not have the skills to build a free society today if it wasn't already bestowed on us, because courageous people fought to rid their countries of rule by religion.

If you want to live in a free, liberal democracy where everyone has equal rights and no-one is oppressed, you have to reject scriptural, literal Islam. You also have to reject fundamentalist Christianity, too. I've rejected religion, and I despise it. I believe in freedom of religion (which doesn't exist in the Islamic tradition, and didn't in the Christian one until recently in the West), but I especially believe in freedom from religion.

If you want to be a Hindu, a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew, a Buddhist, a Jain or an Atheist, great. Fantastic. Keep it away from me. Leave me out of it. Keep your religion to yourself. If anyone asks about it, tell them until they get bored. But otherwise, leave people alone. I no more want to see the Christian fanatics making a resurgence on society as I do Islamic fanatics now. I want them to all to go to hell.

If it makes you feel better, I despise Christianity and the power of the church. I was brought up Christian, by the way. I think religion has far too much influence in the world, and that influence over others needs to be eradicated. Islam is the most serious religion-based threat to civilisation that we face at the moment, but in the past Christianity made Islam look like rank amateurs. The blood spilled in the bloody name of that religion is a stain on all our societies, and we're still embarrassed by how we used to behave.

So, according to you, I must hate all religious people and wish them to be put in pork pies. Fine. I can live with that.

And as for the PVV: Third World immigrants with serious problems with crime, bigotry and religious fanaticism are taking over the cities of a small country formerly internationally recognised for its extremely tolerant and liberal nature - a place that was (along with Denmark) the location of the 1970s sexual revolution and one of the first enlightened Western countries to legalise prostitution and soft drugs. A country world-renouned for its tolerance and warm-heartedness towards all kinds of sexual minorities. Think about why such a party might become more popular. Many Dutch people have had enough. And this feeling ain't restricted to the Netherlands - it's happening all over Western Europe. There are similar parties in Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Belgium...

Last edited by Tequila on 11 Jun 2013, 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hey Tequila, you may find this documentary interesting:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGkrnDpH6sg[/youtube]

Indeed. I've seen it. It's quite old now.

There are some immensely courageous people out there doing their best to achieve freedom for themselves and their families so that they no longer have to hide who they are from this world. Like the case of Mohammad Qataa from Syria, that took place only a few days ago.

For what it's worth, I think it's blindingly obvious that the security services should be focusing on the threats to our nation, instead of treating everyone as a threat. The main threats to the UK (as far as I know) are Islamist fanatics and, in second place, dissident Irish republican terrorists.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5447886.html#5447886

Whoa! Some nice vociferousness there. You started out quite well, I thought that the 61% thing was gonna do the trick, but in the later part you chickened out. I mean it's not like I expected to find the answer to my question in the first reply (or in any reply for that matter), but I felt disappointed due to the initial - can I say vociferousness again? It was a nice touch mentioning your dislike for immigrants, but it contributed nothing towards the answer to my question.

So. You've decided to neither own up nor shut up. Good for you. Good luck with your vociferousness (god, why can't I stop that?) If you want to keep posting more half-truths, conspiracy theories and lies while trying to maintaing the illusion of real and valid criticism, you're most welcome. I won't get in the way. The thread is all yours.

(And please, don't even insult my intelligence with that fearmongering thing. You know well the difference between that and the truth.) I'm through with you.

Now. Let's see what Cyberdad has to say.

He will say the same thing that I did.

The "61% of UK Muslims support execution or imprisonment of gays" is true, but I overegged it slightly. It refers to young adult British Muslims (16-24), who are more illiberal than older Muslims, largely because of the Saudi/Deobandi influence. It seems to me that, with younger Muslims, that the ones taught in fundamentalist schools either stay like that for the rest of their lives, or they start to question what they are taught, with some deciding to leave the religion altogether (though I wouldn't want to live in a Muslim area with fundamentalist parents and be an apostate). The ex-Muslim board has some interesting life stories on that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_t ... te_note-16

Links in it to the Policy Exchange and reports by other polling organisations and think tanks.

A third of those young British Muslims polled believe that apostates from Islam should be murdered.

Interesting video on taqqiya and abrogation by an ex-Muslim.

Basically, he says that taqqiya relates to Shias protecting themselves from being murdered by Sunnis long ago, and that the abrogation question is complex and there is a huge amount of arguing about what verses supercede or are before what.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjZSJg1HQpc[/youtube]

These statistics are very worrying. If you take these general attitudes of muslims towards gays, apostates and women then it illustrates the problems of social cohesion for those choosing to advocate this faith but wanting to transplant it here in the west.