transgender student OKed for locker room access

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Do you really wish to learn, or are you looking for grounds on which to attack or argue, please?

If it's the former, I'll go back tonight and find it/them and try to explain my answer and/or how & why the question may be seen as offensive.

But if you are just looking for points to argue, it's a bit of a waste of time wouldn't you agree?

I'm actually trying to understand the way you see things.

In a way these threads are nothing more than a waste of time. The two sides have a difference of view and legitimate concerns. The problem is always with the debate, they are more like MMA matches than anything else which gets nobody any closer to seeing the other's side of things.

Round 4!

Some countries don't have gendered toilets.
It's a non issue when you have unisex facilities.

Maybe everyone is looking at this from the wrong angle.

Generally we refer to them a penises and vaginas, as ungendered medical terms. You may hear other slang terms - I've heard some trans guys refer to their clitoris' as "minidicks" - and some people may not want to call them anything at all due to dysphoria. But normally they're just penises and vaginas.

(I think what everyone else was a bit annoyed about your later posts that you said you couldn't call someone that said they were a different gender to what you could see as their preferred pronouns. Some cis people look exactly like another gender, some people look incredibly androgenous, and more often than not you will not see their genitalia or their genetalia might be ambiguous. Unless you would also refer to these people as the gender you saw them as, your attitude is kind of problematic.)

S.O.B.

Went to post a reply to the above and WP screwed up my message between submit and the damn captcha crap.

Maybe I'll try to replicate my answers later.

Thanks for the reply.



I've already posted why I can't do so. I generally call things as I see them. As an Aspie it feels like lying to me to do so. I'll leave it to those of you who aren't dinosaurs to deal with asking everyone you meet what they go by.



In this case I guess I'd have to take their word for it, though it wouldn't be out of any sort of respect. If later I found out they lied to me I'd have to assume they didn't have enough respect for me to tell me the truth in the first place though.

Last edited by RoadRatt on 17 Dec 2015, 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Can't even edit without a stupid captcha, WTF?!?

Okay, so with trans people...who gets to determine the "truth" of a person's sex and gender - them or you?

Sex and gender?!? In all the threads I've seen so far they seem to be one and the same to transgenders, this isn't the case?

One - what's a transgender?

Two - I can't speak for these "transgenders" you mention, but most people who *are transgender* don't consider them to be the same thing.

Am I using the wrong word?

Remember, I'm an old dinosaur and can't keep up with all these newfangled terms.

Yeah, I'm afraid so. It's akin to,

"So, I was talking to the cancers down in the chemotherapy ward...".


I'm sure it was just a matter of getting sidetracked (you'd asked if sex & gender are the same & I'll get to that if you wish) but with transgender people, who gets to decide if they are a man or a woman; you or them?

Fine, I'll just go with transgenders since no one seems to want to post anything other than a smart ass answer...

So, going back to Edenthiel's baby type question. You transgenders have a baby. What do you do, give it a boy's name if it has a penis? give it a girl's name if it has a vagina? or do you wait for it to grow old enough to tell you what gender it thinks it is and what it wants to be called?

"You transgenders"??? What does that even mean grammatically? (hint: nothing, it's not an actual word)

But anyway, our daughter *is* transgender. The doctor assigned 'male' to her on her birth paperwork but said that based on several factors there was a 1-in-4 chance he was wrong. For much of her third year, during the typical developmental stage where children realize a sense of Self that includes their sense of sex and gender identity, she gave herself a gender neutral nickname. A few months later, just short of four years old, she told us she was a girl and needed to live as one, and told us the name she wished to go by.

We read up on the biology & neurology & genetics & endocrinology underlying what it meant to be transgender. Then we talked to pediatricians, pediatric endocrinologists and yes, therapists. Including the only one on the West Coast that had much experience back then with trans & gender atypical (or 'gender creative' as she prefers to call them) children. Then we joined parents online groups and local meet ups with other parents of trans kids, and learned their stories, too. Since our daughter was very clear and consistent about knowing she is a girl, since we knew there were other physical indications of mixed sex development (not necessarily intersex) and since by then we had learned what often happens to such kids who are not allowed to be themselves, we decided to respect her self identity. Our history is extremely typical of families where the trans child knows at a young age, by the way, and is not forced to repress who they are just to please people who think they know better.

I don't get the "transgender thing".

I don't get what it means to feel male, or female. I feel neither. I know I'm a male, biologically. So I "identify" as a male. I resent the idea of feeling male/female without having the "proper" genitals, because it means there is some way of being a "proper" male to begin with, other than having male genitals.

But I also get that there are people who struggle with gender identities. Just because I don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong. As long as they don't expect me to truly understand as if it's a given, who cares.

I wasn't making fun of anyone, I just believe that if someone is trans, then they should be treated as the gender they mentally and possibly neurologically are.

Reading my intentions is possibly something you should avoid....