United Methodist Church To Split Over Same-Sex Marriage

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I joined the United Methodist Church a few years ago, and I saw this schism coming back then after I learned as much as I could about the UMC.

I was hoping the General Conference was going to vote in favor of the plan that would let churches decide whether they would allow gay clegy and gay marriage. It falls short of a wholesale change, but at least it would've stopped this schism.

I'm very curious to see what faction my church ends up falling into because my head pastor was in favor of the aforementioned plan. He's stressed that LGBT people are welcome in our church but has stopped short of affirming gay marriage.

Indeed
https://www.history.com/news/slave-bibl ... -testament

Everyone also has the right to their own lifestyle without criticism from Churches. Equity is a two way street.

That's why I'm doing my part not to criticise anyone, and to respect differences of opinion or belief.

I was raised to show dignity and respect for all people.

I agree with the first part of your statement. I do not agree with the second.

People have a right to live their own lifestyle. People also should have a right to criticize the lifestyle of another.

For example, I wouldn't want someone who thought autistic people were "ret*d" or "dangerous" or "useless" or hated them to be jailed. I wouldn't want to point to them and screech for the police to put a boot on their neck. I would want to try to change their mind by showing them that those beliefs are ignorant and false.

Agree 100%.

The problem is that we’re so afraid to hurt peoples’ feelings that we feel it is imperative to agree with everything everybody does.

I don't feel it's important to agree with everyone. Likewise, I'm not afraid of hurting people's feelings -- because I wouldn't say hurtful things even if I disagree. I'll say "I disagree with _____ ". I may or may not give my reasons based on the situation, and how well I know the person, but I wouldn't hurt anyone's feelings because everyone is allowed an opinion.

I would not start cracking jokes or insulting the other groups of people with sweeping generalisations and stereotypes ... even if they insulted me first.

The definition of bigotry is "intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself".

I'm not intolerant of other people's views. I'm only intolerant of people's behaviour, if they mock others.

Some people here aren't tolerant of other views because they mock and tease people who have different values. They think that only their opinion is right, even if it is a good and valid opinion.

On the issue of gay marriage (which I support) I think it's hypocritical that some people would say "Gay people have the right to marriage. They are informed adults with freedom of choice". Hypocritically, those people also say "People who disagree with gay marriage don't have a right to disagree. They are not informed adults. They should not have freedom of thought or freedom of choice. I'm going to belittle them because they don't think the way I do".

I don't understand or accept that bigotry. It's a contradiction of values.

Live and let live is my motto, along with "treat others as you'd like to be treated".

No one deserves to be bullied.

There’s a big problem when children are raised in cultures that are against gay marriage or relationships. Children internalize whatever anti-gay messages they may be hearing which can lead to lots of problems for individuals who are gay, both internally and externally (especially in the familial environment).

There’s not a lot of manipulation going on as far as what the Bible says concerning homosexuality. It’s very explicit.

It depends on whether or not an individual views the Bible, word-for-word, as the Word of God or if they are just looking at the broader theme in specific Bible books.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 06 Jan 2020, 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Agreed. That doesn't mean the child should be exposed to parents who mock and scorn others for having different points of view, for being religious / irreligious, or for having different lifestyles. They can't teach their child that it's OK to be intolerant "if the other person starts it first" or "because we're right and they're wrong".

Parents should teach their child to accept everyone and treat people with honour and respect.

If it's really problematic in the community, those parents should relocate to somewhere more suitable for their family.

With my kid, I focus on evolution and talk about inconsistencies in the Bible itself here and there to fight against my parents pushing religion on him which they will do as he gets older.

We also talk about differing belief systems. It’s a natural extension of the the books on history that we’ve been reading together. He finds it interesting, but he’s a natural sceptic.

He’s used to exercising discretion with religious family members and friends. We are respectful towards others, but I’m not going to say that something is positive when it isn’t. It’s about balance.

I seek to emphasize rationalism. He’s going to be presented with conspiracy theories as well which is not cool. At least he likes science. That’s half the battle.

A parent can teach their child "Some people in the world think ________ . Other people in the world think ______. Everyone is allowed their own opinion and freedom of choice so long as they aren't violent or actively attacking each other. My opinion is ______. What do you think? What is your opinion?"

Dialogue is a much better teaching tool than shaming others, retaliating, or making fun of people with different values.

I would teach my child that I'm not intolerant of anyone because we have "freedom of choice", and that mockery or bullying is never justified regardless of the disagreement.

Some people in the world think Coca-Cola tastes best.  Other people in the world think Pepsi-Cola tastes best.  Everyone is allowed their own opinion and freedom of choice so long as they aren't violent or actively attacking each other.  My opinion is Jif tastes best.  What do you think?  What is your opinion?

I’m not going to neutrally say that “Some people think this _____“ when it involves problematic and damaging beliefs. He’s still too young to have fully developed his critical thinking skills. I briefly but clearly state positives and negatives, and we discuss them together. This is what works for our family. I don’t think that all beliefs are equally valid.

We are respectful of others.

I don’t even engage in religious conversations offline, but it’s crucial for me to guard him against insidious indoctrination.

He still has religious friends. His best friend is a JW. I’m not sure how that’s going to go in the coming years on his friend’s end...

We meet for Cub Scouts in a church.

He doesn’t talk about religion or the holidays with his best friend. They connect over things that are not related to religion.

He’s a rational, scientifically minded kid. Sometimes the stuff that comes up in our history book is not rational, and he recognizes that. It’s a strength of his. He also knows that humans are not always going to be rational.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 06 Jan 2020, 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It is good you are about recognizing inconsistencies in the Bible, many members of my family want to try to claim you have to do everything in the Bible. I have learned that people that take the Bible too seriously deserve no respect for their beliefs, especially when their words lack consistency with their actions.

It sounds like you've already decided that science is "rational" and "correct", and that you are pointing this out to your son in counterbalance of his grandparents who are "wrong". That's your opinion. Please realise your son has every right to decide for himself what is rational or correct.

You said "I'm not going to say something is positive when it isn't". I wasn't suggesting that you need to say "religion is positive", or that parents have to glorify the other point of view. I'm saying that freedom of choice is positive, and a child's ability to decide independently with critical thinking is "positive". It sounds like your son is beginning to do this.