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VegetableMan
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04 Oct 2021, 12:57 pm

Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I am damned tired of arguing with people who are both ignorant of medical science and lacking in common sense.  If they die of covid, then so be it.  They are not my responsibility, and I will not attend any more of their funerals.  They have been warned repeatedly, and I am now just waiting for the inevitable "I told you so" moments.
Interesting. You chastised me for this very viewpoint a few days ago...
More people I know have died.  One woman lost 2 brothers and a sister in less than a week.  Another woman lost her only brother, and now she is left alone to care for her ailing parents.

I had warned them all.

Now I am angry as Hell, and I am not going to put up with it anymore.  There have been too many deaths and too many funerals -- all because anti-vaxxers are effing stupid -- and I am no longer going to anyone's funeral if they died of covid.


I understand. We're on the same page then.


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04 Oct 2021, 1:09 pm

If you're vaxxed, you're much less likely to catch it. If you catch it while vaxxed, you're much more likely to be asymptomatic & much less likely to need the hospital. If you're unvaxxed, you're likely to have much worse symptoms & to end up hospitalized. Hospitalization is expensive, & we're all going to be paying for that.

We have treatments now, but they are expensive. Especially compared to the vax's price. (And frankly, I really do resent having to pay for those who are voluntarily unvaxxed. If one can't take the vax, that's one thing. To refuse the social contract is just... I have no faith in my fellow Americans at this point.)

All my friends are vaxxed & still wear masks when out to protect those who aren't incase we're infected & don't realize it. We also mask out of respect for medical people who have to be around it and children who can't be vaxxed. I also still don't want to actually catch it if possible. The unvaxxed are helping it to keep spreading & mutating more than if the vast majority were vaxxed.

Society seems to have forgotten how horrible the diseases we vax for were. No vax is 100%. Ever. The main idea is to slow the spread, slow the mutation, & keep people from getting extremely sick. We don't see polio cases because when that came out everyone was around it & got vaxxed (most anyway). I don't understand how society has forgotten. (Altho apparently they used to close schools for polio & do lessons (lectures) over the radio for elementary up. No idea why we forgot how to handle closed schools, or to plan for such, either.)

We're getting our sashes replaced (the new window frames are already in), but we're not letting anyone inside (& didn't during the initial install either) without properly worn face masks. Eyes can roll, but we're paying.

Eta: I won't be replying after this. I just really needed to get it out after attending a convention that required masks & watching a few hissy-fits that occurred.

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Anyone?? How so?

If they're unvaccinated too, then they're taking the same risk as I am. If they are vaccinated, there's no risk of them catching COVID from me, the vaccine will protect them. Unless it doesn't? In that case, what good is it? More importantly, if the vaccinated can still catch and pass on COVID, then what's to stop you from catching it and, in turn, passing it on to anyone you come in contact with, even if they're also vaccinated?

"Get the vaccine, because you're putting others at risk, even if they're vaccinated."
Well, then, I'd still be putting them at risk if I am vaccinated, since I could still catch and pass on COVID.



Fnord
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04 Oct 2021, 2:41 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I am damned tired of arguing with people who are both ignorant of medical science and lacking in common sense.  If they die of covid, then so be it.  They are not my responsibility, and I will not attend any more of their funerals.  They have been warned repeatedly, and I am now just waiting for the inevitable "I told you so" moments.
Interesting. You chastised me for this very viewpoint a few days ago...
More people I know have died.  One woman lost 2 brothers and a sister in less than a week.  Another woman lost her only brother, and now she is left alone to care for her ailing parents.

I had warned them all.

Now I am angry as Hell, and I am not going to put up with it anymore.  There have been too many deaths and too many funerals -- all because [b]anti-vaxxers are effing stupid
-- and I am no longer going to anyone's funeral if they died of covid.[/b]
I understand. We're on the same page then.
That is a scary thought.



auntblabby
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04 Oct 2021, 5:36 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
I don't want to die, but if I do die from COVID for not being vaccinated...then it's entirely on me. My RISK…
… and the risk of anyone who comes in contact with you while you are dying.

Anyone?? How so?

If they're unvaccinated too, then they're taking the same risk as I am. If they are vaccinated, there's no risk of them catching COVID from me, the vaccine will protect them. Unless it doesn't? In that case, what good is it? More importantly, if the vaccinated can still catch and pass on COVID, then what's to stop you from catching it and, in turn, passing it on to anyone you come in contact with, even if they're also vaccinated?

"Get the vaccine, because you're putting others at risk, even if they're vaccinated."
Well, then, I'd still be putting them at risk if I am vaccinated, since I could still catch and pass on COVID.

the shots vastly reduce the chance you will catch the virus but the virus can still "live" in nasal passages of vaccinated people, so that is why mask-wearing is still the compassionate thing to do to keep others that are unvaccinated from catching it from you.



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05 Oct 2021, 2:05 pm

For this reply forget about protecting others be selfish.

What people expect is zero risk and you won’t get that from the COVID vaccines. This is typical with vaccines. The Polio vaccine which all but eliminated Polio is an outlier. The COVID vaccines 75 percent to 90 percent effective, the flu vaccine which nobody b*****s about 20 to 60 percent effective. As said you get less of a chance of catching COVID and if you do get it you are less likely to get seriously ill that still remains true if you factor vaccine injuries which are outliers. As mentioned earlier the long term effects of the COVID vaccines are unknown. It should be noted that there has never been a documented long term side effect from a vaccine. That is not 100 percent guarantee there won’t be for one the COVID vaccines but it means it is very unlikely.

Conclusion with a few exceptions taking the vaccine is clearly the lesser of two evils. What the refusenicks often do is chose the riskier option because they have become convinced the outlier or misinformed cases “prove” the vaccine is extremely risky and that it is being covered up. In the words of Spock “that is illogical”.


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05 Oct 2021, 6:02 pm

Fnord wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There is a greater risk not getting vaccinated. I've been vaccinated, and so has my wife and daughter. We're all three still here. Opposition to the vaccine has become political, with anti-vaxxers expecting reality to bend to their political ideology.
My mom, my NT sister, and I have also been vaccinated and we believe that people who refuse to get the vaccine regardless of reason deserve no sympathy if they contract COVID.
My wife, myself, our siblings, our kids, and all their spouses have all been vaccinated.  Some of us pray nightly that the vaxx-deniers will come to their senses, get vaccinated, and avoid a lonely and miserable death by covid.  Some of us openly mock those who refused the vaccine and have died from covid.  The rest of us are simply relieved that we are saved from the worst effects of the coronavirus and physically avoid those who rant and rave against medical science and common sense.


It's also the paranoia caused by conspiracy theorists who still believe that COVID-19
is a hoax created by the media to make the previous administration look bad.

Although "Pumpkin" himself got a vaccine, he still believed the pandemic was nothing to worry about.


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auntblabby
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05 Oct 2021, 6:55 pm

there are at least 74 million amuuuuricans that just don't grok "logical" or "prudent." these folks generally don't do nuance, to [partially] quote a former POTUS. to more fully quote a great american wit: "No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby. The mistake that is made always runs the other way. Because the plain people are able to speak and understand, and even, in many cases, to read and write, it is assumed that they have ideas in their heads, and an appetite for more. This assumption is a folly." [H. L. Mencken]



Brictoria
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05 Oct 2021, 7:28 pm

auntblabby wrote:
there are at least 74 million amuuuuricans that just don't grok "logical" or "prudent." these folks generally don't do nuance, to [partially] quote a former POTUS. to more fully quote a great american wit: "No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby. The mistake that is made always runs the other way. Because the plain people are able to speak and understand, and even, in many cases, to read and write, it is assumed that they have ideas in their heads, and an appetite for more. This assumption is a folly." [H. L. Mencken]


That's a big drop from the 81 million in November last year...How much further will that number drop by 2024, do you think?



DW_a_mom
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05 Oct 2021, 8:14 pm

Brictoria wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
there are at least 74 million amuuuuricans that just don't grok "logical" or "prudent." these folks generally don't do nuance, to [partially] quote a former POTUS. to more fully quote a great american wit: "No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby. The mistake that is made always runs the other way. Because the plain people are able to speak and understand, and even, in many cases, to read and write, it is assumed that they have ideas in their heads, and an appetite for more. This assumption is a folly." [H. L. Mencken]


That's a big drop from the 81 million in November last year...How much further will that number drop by 2024, do you think?


The election popular vote results have not changed: Biden 81 Million, Trump 74 Million. Or are you joking about reversing the claim of who doesn't do nuance?


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Brictoria
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05 Oct 2021, 8:25 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
there are at least 74 million amuuuuricans that just don't grok "logical" or "prudent." these folks generally don't do nuance, to [partially] quote a former POTUS. to more fully quote a great american wit: "No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby. The mistake that is made always runs the other way. Because the plain people are able to speak and understand, and even, in many cases, to read and write, it is assumed that they have ideas in their heads, and an appetite for more. This assumption is a folly." [H. L. Mencken]


That's a big drop from the 81 million in November last year...How much further will that number drop by 2024, do you think?


The election popular vote results have not changed: Biden 81 Million, Trump 74 Million. Or are you joking about reversing the claim of who doesn't do nuance?


I'll leave that to the reader to decide ;)



Last edited by Brictoria on 05 Oct 2021, 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

auntblabby
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05 Oct 2021, 8:26 pm

we all know what he is doing, just ignore him.



cyberdad
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05 Oct 2021, 10:49 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
Although "Pumpkin" himself got a vaccine, he still believed the pandemic was nothing to worry about.


The great pumpkin was self-medicating after getting COVID and spreading it to unsuspecting MAGAs and staffers.
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/p ... tment.html

Apart from idiots who took Lysol after listening to him, Trump might well have given COVID to people who subsequently died after attending his public rallies. Lots of anti-vaxxers loved him and came to these mass gatherings like moths to a flame.



auntblabby
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05 Oct 2021, 10:52 pm

above all, it is a tragedy.



cyberdad
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05 Oct 2021, 10:58 pm

auntblabby wrote:
above all, it is a tragedy.


Certain irony. Very soon the police will be telling anti-vaxxers the same thing...."we will find you" :lol:



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06 Oct 2021, 2:41 am

Then there's this guy who's obviously the center of sanity in the anti-vaxxer movement (sarcasm, if you didn't get it):

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-lawmaker ... 28728.html


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06 Oct 2021, 1:42 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
It's also the paranoia caused by conspiracy theorists who still believe that COVID-19
is a hoax created by the media to make the previous administration look bad.

Haven’t you sheepie figured out George Soros paid for 700,000 crises actors?


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