Muslims march over cartoons of the Prophet

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If the issue is one of free speech in general, then the cartoon issue is only one example amongst many where freedom of speech is under threat. Other examples include Holocaust denial and racist chanting at football matches. Granted, these activities are unlawful and transgressions result in justice being meted out by the State and not the mob. However, all societies do place limits on free speech. Muslims are not the only ones demanding that people avoid defaming their religion. Some of the violence of their reaction has gone beyond the law, but many other groups would react to any perceived collective insult.
The impact of the cartoons on the Muslim world has taken on wider implications. The unfortunate focus on these cartoons has raised other issues of the relationship between the Islamic and the Western world. This may be what many of the posts on this thread are addressing.

First of all racist chants at football marches are abuse and intimidation so slightly different circumstances from a cartoon funny. Secondly, Im against the crimilalisation of holocaust denial (though find the people who do it totally wrong, and suspect , with good reason, that most of them are racist), if it is ilegal in this country then the law isnt being enforced well on this issue as lots of people have done it without prosecution and certainly the media has poked fun at other religions without fear of prosecution or death.

I realise there are limits to free speech. Incitement to kill for instance is ilegal. It has only been the worldwide protestors who have crossed that line in this case. They seem to have got off scot free while others like Danish diplomat's and the cartoon-makers have gone into hiding. Giving into the bullies and extremists will only cause further problems for us down the line so i agree with the decision of the foreign newspapers showing their solidarity in publishing the cartoons.

Very good point. The protestors have crossed the lines of free speech this time. The cartoonist was well within his rights because his cartoons were satyrical and irreverent, and only threatening to childish cranks.

Ladysmokeater wrote:
do in the effort of sounding unbiased, has anyone here protested and rioted over the same kinds of things said aginst jews and Christians by muslim papers/TV stations/etc?


I havent seen my countrymen burning stuff over it....


The entire thing is a stepping block and an excuse to riot aginst and spread hate aginst the free world.












Amen.

How about a "truth or consequences" cartoon? Will the real Mohammed please stand up? Will it be the one with the flammable turban, the one who shoots up school buses, or what?

Also, considering the fact that it seems like half of all Moslem males are named "Mohammed" I don't know how anyone can be sure who they are talking about when someone calls a cartoon character "Mohammed."

the point that i was making was that invading a country is the ultimate form of one culture imposing its values on another. i think it is also an example of who has the greater influence on the other.


i couldn't agree with you more, on that point. in an ideal world, people would be able to express their opinions freely. but, since this isn't an ideal world, perhaps it would be best if people took potential implications in to consideration before criticising other cultures.

Moslems have never hesitated to express contempt for Western culture and for Israel. They have often expressed this disrespect by shooting at Christians and Jews, rounding them up and murdering them, and by terrorism. They encouraged acts of terrorism before this incident. These are some our gripes against them recently. Their gripes against us? Someone drew some cartoons.

What kind of people are we dealing with here? Is emotional maturity even a concept in their culture? To be perfectly fair, Christians go into a snit too when someone ridicules them, but Christians have been learning how to act like adults about it.

It's something in the makeup of some humans that I despise. Some off-hand comment, that a rational person cannot understand why it is that wrong, sends some people into a program of horrible violence against the person who made the comment.

The cartoon controversy starkly shows the difference between Judaism/Christianity on the one hand, and Islam on the other hand. When a Danish newspaper prints cartoons of Mohammed, and these cartoons are reprinted by other European papers, it causes another "clash of civilizations" and diplomatic crisis between the Muslim countries and the West. When newspapers in Muslim countries print cartoons insulting to Jews and Christians, do people in the West respond the same way? The Egyptian paper Al-Ahram prints anti-Jewish cartoons that look like they could be plagiarized from Nazi newspapers. Does the Egyptian government apologize for these cartoons? Not at all. Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak makes the claim that Al-Ahram is an independent newspaper, and he cannot apologize for the actions of an "independent" newspaper. Does this argument sound familiar--it is the same argument that Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen is making with regard to the Mohammed cartoons published by an independent Danish paper. There is one important difference--Al-Ahram is not an "independent" paper, but is in fact a government-owned paper. Jyllands-Posten is a true independent newspaper, and is not owned by the Danish government. Al-Ahram is not the only Muslim country newspaper that prints anti-Jewish and anti-Christian cartoons--they all do. Are there protests and burnings of Muslim country embassies, boycotts of Muslim country goods, and grovelling by liberals over such cartoons? The answer is no. Let's end the double standards--it not OK to insult another religion, whether it be Islam, Judaism, or Christianity. The sad fact is that it is not only the Muslim media, but also the Western media that has declared open season on insulting Christianity. It is OK to have issues and disagreements with other religions, and to express them publicly, but not to insult another religion. However, democratic governments should not be forced to apologize for their free press. In Denmark, the press is free, while in Muslim countries, it is not, especially when it comes to criticism of Islam.

I just watched a report a few nights ago about more shootings and upheaval by Muslims over that cartoon! How long will this go on? Remember the backlash about a reported rumor of the Qu'ran flushing? Do Christians react this way when a Bible is burnt or defaced? No. Why? Because we believe our God will deal with it. He doesn't need us to defend Him. He will have the last say. If anyone, Jews should be displaying these extreme reactions as the most persecuted and ridiculed people on the face of this planet. I don't know why Muslims feel the need to be so reactionary and aggressive and negative. It doesn't look as if it is just an "extreme few" to me. It seems to be the norm. I don't really think that this behavior is defensible at all, in any way. Having said this, I do sympathize with the Muslims on the issue of their faith being ridiculed in the press, if this is in fact what happened. I wish the press would learn to be decent and civil and not crass, cutthroat, and cynical. Personally, I'm sick of the press in general.

You are very right, CRB. These people are bullies. They continually ridicule and say hateful things about the United States and then talk about "respect" when we return anything in kind. I saw we make it worse. We mail them ridiculing cartoons of Mohammed and their leaders. At the same time, we make our own blasphemous cartoons of our own Jesus just to show them that we can take it. Let them act like spoiled babies, and do not give them even one concession, ever.

I don't think it's right to kill innocent people over one cartoon; look how many times the Egyptian government put anti-Jewish cartoons in one of their newspapers? The Jewish and Christian people probably take the most criticism than any other religion or any other type of people. Something like this was probably bound to happen because of how much terrorism has been done by Muslims, though not all Muslims, around the world. They are capable of being nice, but I think that since their Quran asks them to do violent things (like killing non-believers and what not), most of them are bound to commit violent crimes against non-Muslims or anything that goes against it. I don't think it's right to kill another person or people strictly because they made fun of you or your religion or beliefs; if that were the Christians' or Jewish principles, then there would have been something like 7 world wars or something crazy.

"The cartoons, you see, have not been published in this country[UK], and the Government has been very critical of those countries in which they were published. To many of the Islamic clerics, that's a clear victory."

"It's confirmation of what they believe to be a familiar pattern: if spokesmen for British Muslims threaten what they call 'adverse consequences' - violence to the rest of us - then the British Government will cave in. I think it is a very dangerous precedent."

Telegraph.co.uk 19 Feb 2006

Full article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia219.xml

p*****s. This thing is getting SO very old. If those nit-nats have what it takes to chop hands off of people who steal apples, I bet they can find some way of controlling the so-called people who are terrorizing newspapers for running cartoons. All these people are earning from me is contempt and anger. How DARE they tell us what we can draw and write?

Ascan wrote: "It's confirmation of what they believe to be a familiar pattern: if spokesmen for British Muslims threaten what they call 'adverse consequences' - violence to the rest of us - then the British Government will cave in. I think it is a very dangerous precedent."


This is an excellent point. I know how much most of WP members hate Bush, and I'm still not sure the war with Iraq was the correct course of action, but I do believe that it did show the world that the U.S. has grown tired of tolerating terrorist bullcrap and won't take it anymore. This is probably the most significant contribution Bush could have made. The U.S. has put up with more terrorism than we ever should have. I remember growing up watching terrorist plane hijackings and bombings and kidnappings: the Iran hostage crisis, etc. I was so disgusted with all of the "bargaining", negotiating, and bullsh**ing that went on while our people were molested and/or killed by "extremists". Former presidents have done little or nothing (certainly nothing effective) to combat terrorism. This has been a growing problem for years, it is not a new development. We do not identify with this culture of violence and terrorism nor their religion because we are Americans and our belief systems are practically polar opposites. (which is why I am dubious as to the success of the "democracy" that is being established in Iraq) Many Americans are trying to sypathize with Muslims, looking at it from an Western perspective. I think if you could live in the Middle East and absorb their culture, you would have a better perception and quit trying to pretend that Muslims share the same worldview and only the extremists are the "bad boys". The Muslim religion is an extreme religion; extremely intolerant and hateful.
This does not mean that I hate Muslims and don't believe that they have a right to democracy or fair treatment or the respect due to any human; But I don't believe that they have a right to try to oppress everyone else with their terrorist tactics. I have met exactly three Muslims and enjoyed them all. One was a native of Bagdad and a very sweet women who came here to escape the fighting. She was a Suni Muslim and was rescued by her Christian, missionary friend who paid for her escape and her family. She said she was glad, as were many Iraqis, that our military was there and she was surprised that our press was not showing this, but seemed to portray the opposite. She also said that she was afraid that she would experience persecution in the U.S. but had encountered only acceptance. (she had believed the propaganda of the "America is the Great Satan" camp) The other Muslim women I met were American women who thought they were Muslims, I'm not sure. I can't see why any American woman would willingly convert to the Muslim faith when it is demeaning and oppressive to women.

I am not a muslim, but in my opinion, i think Jyllands-Posten was foolish to publist the cartoons, it was like when Rushdie written the Satanic verses and when Prince Harry Dressed as a Nazi. Why didnt they chose something less sensitive like the Inquisition.

Thread necro! Shouldn't we leave posts that are 4 years old alone? =/