[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.

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Perhaps this is easy. The leaders of the State of Israel reach out to the UN and propose that they (the Israelis) relinquish authority over Israel as defined by its pre-1967 borders to an agency to be formed by the UN, one of said agency's responsibilities being that of deciding the future citizenship in whatever sovereign nation they deem best suited for that, for any Jew currently living in the Middle East whose ancestors arrived there after the establishment of Zionism as a movement. Gaza and the entirety of the "West Bank", as defined by those same borders, will provisionally fall under the authority of Hamas and Fatah, respectively. In addition, every Middle Eastern Jew will be obliged to cooperate with prosecution should they be accused of a war crime. Meanwhile, anyone whose ancestors left Palestine, or was relocated within the borders of Palestine, during the Naqba will be instantly entitled to return to wherever those ancestors lived. If their ancestors owned a house or flat which is now occupied by Jews, those Jews are to be automatically evicted. At the same time, the UN will make an ironclad promise that they will prosecute anyone who harms a Jew simply for being Jewish. Also, any Palestinian who may be suspected of committing an act of "terrorism" (by whatever definition) will be automatically pardoned, the rationale for which being that nobody has the proper moral perspective to pass judgment.

I hasten to add that I don't personally endorse this solution, but I don't question that it would work and would be surprised if many non-Jewish people would see a problem with it.

^ I see no future international recognition of Hamas; at most, Gaza may be eventually ruled by Fatah or mandated by a multinational Arab/non-Arab forces.

I see Mahmoud Abbas would get more recognition and support, the Axis* people call him traitor and coward, but it has been proven that his approach is the more reasonable one.


** "The Axis" refers to the pro-war pro-iran camp in Middle-east: Iran + Syria's Assad + Houthis+ Hamas + Hezbollah (plus other groups in Lebanon) + Iraqi Iranian-backed Militias (Hachd el Chaabi). The other camp has no official name, they go under different names, but often referred as the Pro-West or Pro-Arab League or anti-Iran camp: The Gulf + Egypt + north Syria + non-armed political groups in Lebanon (52% representation in last elections) + Jordan + Palestinian government + some Iraqi groups.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 10 Nov 2023, 10:33 am, edited 5 times in total.

Saying that Hamas would be given authority over Gaza was intended as a temporary measure that would cause the least friction short term. Clearly (I think) the entire territory usually thought of as Palestine would ultimately be administered by a single entity. The UN Agency I proposed would be transitional, like the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in 1990s South Africa. The point being that I wouldn't pretend to have the ability to predict the ultimate outcome of that process.

I hasten to add that my proposal to which Boo just responded can never come about. Anyone who's spent any time in Israel or around Israelis knows that. What matters, in theory, is what actually can be done to improve the current situation, which is precious little — but please don't stop talking amongst yourselves!

Edited, adding explanation.

At the risk of veering off-topic, I would suggest there's a wider Axis, which really includes most countries with authoritarian governments, for example the DPRK, Russia, China, Cuba, and so forth (like everything there are gray areas e.g. the Gulf includes some authoritarian places). If this makes sense, then ask yourself why that Axis seems in general to be more aggressively Anti-Zionist than other major powers. By which I mean they seem more willing to take military action against Israel whereas non-Axis powers seem inclined to engage with Israel even if strenuously opposed to Israel's actions and policies.

One conspiracy theory says, that the paramilitary part of Hamas (Al Qassam brigades) is under Russian influence, and that the 7th october attacks was orchastred by Russia to create a big distraction from the Ukraine war. Some theorized that Hamas/Iran's leadership weren't even aware of the attacks and Al Qassam acted totally indepedently.
But there's no evidence of any Russian involvement, therefore this remains a conspiracy theory.

On surface, Russia/China are no enemies of Israel, they have good trade relations. Yes, sometimes they take pro-Palestine stances, but that's it, on the surface at least.

The US at least probably doesn't need such a distraction. The House of Representatives is now under control of pro-Russia legislators, and that's probably just the beginning. It seems Ukraine would have continued to lose support within the old Cold-War anti-Soviet alliance one way or the other.

“Political Scientist Ian Bremmer: As things stand, Hamas will most likely be defeated and eliminated, or at least heavily damaged. And the people of Gaza will likely curse them as much as they curse Israel. Netanyahu and his far right facist government will likely cease to exist after the war. Israelis are and will curse Netanyahu and the group of fanatics who made them believe that Israel could thrive by ignoring the suffering in Gaza and the West Bank, and without respecting the significance of Al Aqsa for Muslims. But if this chain of events doesn't lead to the establishment of a Palestinian state with (East) Jerusalem as its capital, it will indeed be a missed opportunity, and will lead to the emergence of new groups that are far more radical and dangerous than Hamas.”

Had to google what Al Aqsa was. Pretty nuts that people would go to war over a building to pray in. Like, uuuuuuhhh, there's land elsewhere and building materials.. another can be constructed where rockets aren't landing. Whichever god you believe in would be cool with you praying from a different building And not having people die over it, I'm sure.

And yes, I'd have the same advice for any christians fighting/killing/dying over praying at a specific church. Same for anyone else of any other religion. Whoever you interpret God to be, build a new building in their honour and say your prayers there. They'd approve of that more than war, destruction and death.


Not sure who's carving up the map or what the ideal end solution is.. but, even if what's proposed in the paragraph above is the ideal map to satisfy the most number of people... somehow I doubt a bunch of warring factions are going to agree to any sort of middle ground or peace deal or whatever even if it's most fair for the most number of people.. they've all been out for blood for hundreds of years, maybe thousands. What's going to make them change now? They're born hating the "others," and trained their entire lives to hate them more. And for that reason they'll be, at the very least, sabre rattling and pointing weapons at each other forever.

Maybe the best we could ever hope for is a more gentlemanly like agreement like India and China have over disputes of borders where they've agreed not to allow guns or bombs in their skirmishes, so soldiers wearing modern day armour clash in hand to hand combat like it's the middle ages.. and yes, a few die, but far fewer than if they were shooting at each other. (Just saw some 60 second documentary on this recently.)

The thing about Al-Aqsa is that they barged in during Friday prayers, because they thought someone they were looking for was in there. I know enough Muslims to get the impression that's something you don't do unless absolutely necessary to save a life. And this was in connection with somebody seizing property in the Silwan neighborhood (I know where that is, you can see it from the ramp leading up to the Hebron(?) gate to the Old City). Whoever lives there has continued to live there since the 1967 war so you'd think their presence there would be accepted. I am convinced this wouldn't have happened if it weren't for Netanyahu I doubt most Israelis would approve, but frankly I doubt most Israelis were even aware, if learning about it would have distracted them from a football match.

What better place for a bad guy to hide than the place someone else isn't supposed to look for some reason?

Their government attacked Israel. So, naturally Israel is fighting back.. and when it comes to looking for bad guys or hostages, it's understandable that no structure is off limits.

The Al-Aqsa thing was a few months ago. Nothing to do with Hamas or Gaza. And it was a dick move.

People have played stupid games hiding people in places of worship, here, too. The story I recall was some guy ordered to be deported. Hid out for months. There's no law that says cops can't go in and take him out, but for months they didn't.. and eventually they had enough of that s**t and went in and took him away as ordered by the courts. Some building isn't a no-go-zone for law enforcement just because some group of people say so.

Solution should be: two states + UNIFEL and multinational forces in the middle + a big thick wall.

A two state solution is never going to happen, and the reason has to do with the Palestinian view of their situation. For the Palestinians, a two state solution would mean conceding part of their ancestral homeland to the Jews in perpetuity. They have already shown that they will never accept this. They WILL accept a two state solution only as an interim stage to regaining control of ALL of Palestine. A solution imposed on them by the UN would make that difficult, and the UN is never going to impose such a solution because the UN is dominated by people for whom Zionism is a movement that must be eradicated. I will add that the Palestinians have become so intransigent in their beliefs, because from every direction they get the message that the world supports them in this. Compare them to the Germans, who lost the Eastern third of their territory in WWII and have come to accept this. Not to mention the Mexicans, who lost a huge chunk of the Northern part of their country to the US and for some reason seem to have come to terms with that, despite having no reason to think they deserved that (unlike the Germans!). But the Palestinians know the world will always support their eternal commitment to regaining all of their territorial heritage.

Many Israelis would trade away some of those parts of Palestine they now control for a guarantee of peace, and many feel no love for settlers in the West Bank. Probably fewer than might have been the case 50 years ago, but after so many decades, the level of cynicism is very high. A life spent in Israel has beaten it out of them, so it's easy to find people in Israel who will express extremely inhumane views on Palestinians.