York Mosque praised for offering EDL protesters tea

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ruveyn
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12 Jun 2013, 10:07 am

cyberdad wrote:

These statistics are very worrying. If you take these general attitudes of muslims towards gays, apostates and women then it illustrates the problems of social cohesion for those choosing to advocate this faith but wanting to transplant it here in the west.

Welcome to Englistan.

ruveyn

cyberdad
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13 Jun 2013, 1:37 am

ruveyn wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Welcome to Englistan.

ruveyn

In many countries if a member of a religious minority advocated killing members of the military (more specifically the teaching Anjem Chaudhary and his thousands of followers in the UK, two of whom murdered a British serviceman) of their own countrymen then they and their followers would be arrested.

In Englistan I'm afraid Anjem Chaudhary is allowed to speak freely about killing his fellow citizens without risk of retribution. Any wonder so many muslim children are brainwashed!
Here's some ridiculous examples of what happens when political correctness prohibits appropriate action
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4c5_1371051262
http://www.news.com.au/national-news/pa ... 5797140592
When I read it I just couldn't believe this could also happen in an Australian school

Tequila
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13 Jun 2013, 4:35 am

cyberdad wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Welcome to Englistan.

ruveyn

This, as well, is one of the major reasons why we have trouble in the West.

We have stopped believing in a secular society that is free and fair and where everyone is treated equally before the law. Once this stops happening, and excuses start being made for certain people (whether it's neo-Nazis, Islamists or revolutionary socialists/communists), society rots and it is the criminals, the thugs and the fanatics that profit from this.

Islamic hate preachers should be punished in the same way as members of the National Front or neo-Nazi skinheads would be. If they call for death to gays, how is that different from the likes of Iilias Kasidiaris calling for death to gays? Or a Christian hate preacher? Or a member of a far-left grouping calling for death to local Conservative Party members?

Dhawal
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13 Jun 2013, 11:42 am

cyberdad wrote:

Hi Cyberdad, you're back! I have a question for you that you might like to answer. I think you missed it - http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5447802.html#5447802

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cyberdad
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14 Jun 2013, 1:41 am

I clicked your link and it just takes me back here? perhaps you could do everyone a favour and restate your "question"

Dhawal
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14 Jun 2013, 10:56 am

Dhawal wrote:

Ok boys, enough fooling around. Lets get straight to the point. You've been dodging most of the questions I asked, because answering them would expose the gaping holes in your logic. And while refusing to answer the questions, you also refuse to stop posting more half-truths, conspiracy theories and lies. All this while somehow trying to maintaing the illusion of real and valid criticism. Well, you're not fooling anybody.

Let's get straight to the point. Do you hate muslims or not? If you say that even half of them are bad, then we have something to talk about. If you say most of them are good ('not bad' will do), then we can end this discussion. I've asked this question to Tequila before, but he may have missed it. Though the post was hard to miss. This time I'm asking both of you. Do you say that most muslims are bad, or do you say most of them are good. Just straight answers, no beating around the bush. If you can't answer it, then atleast have the decency to post no more of your hateful sh**.
It's time to own up, or shut up.

Here.

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ruveyn
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14 Jun 2013, 11:01 am

Tequila wrote:

Islamic hate preachers should be punished in the same way as members of the National Front or neo-Nazi skinheads would be. If they call for death to gays, how is that different from the likes of Iilias Kasidiaris calling for death to gays? Or a Christian hate preacher? Or a member of a far-left grouping calling for death to local Conservative Party members?

In the U.S. Islamic Hate Preachers have a constitutional right to preach hate, as long as they do not foment a riot or insurrection or constructively plot to commit a felony.

ruveyn

cyberdad
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14 Jun 2013, 9:18 pm

Dhawal wrote:

Do you hate muslims or not? If you say that even half of them are bad, then we have something to talk about. If you say most of them are good ('not bad' will do), then we can end this discussion. I've asked this question to Tequila before, but he may have missed it..

You must be quite young as you are unable to delve into the intricacies of a discussion. That is what the purpose of a forum is.

I do not "hate" anybody, even the nasty people who have bullied me in school or ex-employers or work colleagues who happily stabbed me in the back because I was too polite. I certainly don't hate muslims (I did state this earlier but of course you were avoiding much of the content of my posts).

I conclude you have taken what tequila and I have posted too literally. Both of us are neither racist nor bigots. We are concerned over doctrinal adherence in people who purport to follow islam that creates inflexible minds that are taught to hate non-muslims.

I look upon a fundamentalist of any persuasion as somebody with an acquired mental illness. I hope this provides the necessary education you have been sorely missing in Ahmedabad.

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15 Jun 2013, 4:28 am

cyberdad wrote:

I conclude you have taken what tequila and I have posted too literally. Both of us are neither racist nor bigots.

There's a massive difference between saying:

"Muslims are sh***y people. Their men have sex with goats, and Mecca is a whorehouse that should be bombed. Kristallnacht should have been for Muslims instead of Jews. They are pigs who should all be driven out of this country like the vermin they are."

and saying:

"We have serious problems with the increasingly dominant forms of literalist Islam that are increasingly prevalent in Muslim communities in parts of England. It has brought us a whole host of social problems, religious bigotries and terrorism issues that, unfortunately, are unique - or almost unique - to this section of society. In many parts of the country, we live divided and segregated where Muslims and non-Muslims rarely speak to one another. Our government has encouraged them to split themselves off from the national culture of the UK and has happily encouraged fanatical, bigoted types within that community to flock to Britain and has funded these people. This lack of feeling part of one country has led to an increasing fragmentation of society that has led many in the younger generations embracing religious extremism and hatred of the 'host' country."

Last edited by Tequila on 15 Jun 2013, 4:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Tequila
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15 Jun 2013, 4:31 am

cyberdad wrote:

I certainly don't hate muslims (I did state this earlier but of course you were avoiding much of the content of my posts).

Hating Muslims is pointless and stupid. They are people, just like you and me. They deserve to be treated with respect, like everyone else. I would be horrified if, for example, I saw someone like that being abused on the bus for their race or religion. Abusive behaviour towards anyone must be taken seriously - anti-Muslim (both from non-Muslims and sectarianism by Muslims towards other Muslims) and anti-kafir - and should not be a part of any society.

Dhawal
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15 Jun 2013, 3:47 pm

cyberdad wrote:

First of all, thanks for answering my question. I didn't expect it at all. If you hate islam I've got nothing to say, I hate every religion so not gonna argue over that. Thanks for answering the question clearly.

And no, I did not avoid any content of any of your posts. Maybe you could do everyone a favour by reposting it? A link to the post will do just fine.

Now, moving ahead. If you say that you don't hate muslims, and I missed the intricacies of your discussion, then would you please explain to me like you would explain to a 5 year old -
What is your point? What are you trying to say here?
No more intricacies, and no more beating around the bush. Be a little literal ok? Saying one thing and meaning another will not do this time.

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cyberdad
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16 Jun 2013, 12:38 am

Tequila wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

I certainly don't hate muslims (I did state this earlier but of course you were avoiding much of the content of my posts).

This is all I am trying to communicate. Fundamentalist literal interpretation of the Quran is quite prevalent according to the surveys of younger muslims in western countries that you posted earlier. This is influencing their views toward non-muslims which is not healthy.

cyberdad
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16 Jun 2013, 12:46 am

Dhawal wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Sure, people who follow religions in western countries should not i) control how women live or dress or who they socialise with against their will ii) control the education of their children against their will iii) brainwash members of their community to hate/mistrust their fellow citizens iv) influence the politicians in their host country to change foreign policy to benefit a particular religion v) claim tax deductions to build terrible towers in suburbs where there problems with noise and parking vi) impose food quality (Halal or Kosher) and restrict the sale of particular foods in outlets or supermarket chains vii) create enclaves where the entire population is one specific religion

These are few points I am making, notice I never mentioned the word Islam...

ruveyn
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16 Jun 2013, 10:15 am

Tequila wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

I certainly don't hate muslims (I did state this earlier but of course you were avoiding much of the content of my posts).

Hating Muslims is pointless and stupid. They are people, just like you and me./quote]

And some of them them are people who hijack commercial air flights and crash the planes into tall buildings filled with unarmed people.

When was the last time a bunch of Jews or Christians hijacked a plane and crashed it into a tall building?

ruveyn

Dhawal
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16 Jun 2013, 4:40 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Ok, before I go into each point individually, first tell me -
Are you sure these are your points and this is how you would like to describe them? Would you like to change, rephrase or simplify some of them? Would you like to add a point? Are you sure these cannot be "misunderstood" as islamophobic? Think about it. If you are absolutely sure, only then answer the below questions, otherwise go back and make the necessary changes.

1. Why 'western countries'. Why neither Australia, nor 'the world'.
2. Which countries (in your opinion) constitute 'western countries'.

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Tequila
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16 Jun 2013, 5:45 pm

ruveyn wrote:

And some of them them are people who hijack commercial air flights and crash the planes into tall buildings filled with unarmed people.

Are Muslims collectively responsible for these acts? If you ask me, the literalistic take on Islamic scripture takes a considerable part of the blame and, in part, the community that allow such attitudes to fester. That said, Muslims as a whole are absolutely not to blame for the terrorist murders themselves. Muslims did not collectively murder people on 9/11 - the nineteen hijackers, the Al-Qaeda terrorist group and the Saudi government did. The root cause for these atrocities lies in scriptural Islam.

You might want to think about your answer to what I am saying very carefully, given the long history of collective punishment of Jews in Europe during the last millennium.

Last edited by Tequila on 16 Jun 2013, 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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