White guy kills multiple people in black church

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Campin_Cat
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22 Jun 2015, 11:43 am

KimD wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

God promised us free-will, so He couldn't stop the gunman----because that would be breaking His promise. God's heart was broken, as well, when this happened, and He sent His angels to care for all of them whose heart hurt / is hurting..... Notice all the people, there, that forgave the gunman? THAT'S where God is at work----in THEM!

God also promised us that He would have vengeance with someone like this gunman----so, don't worry, he'll (the gunman) get his due!!

Mea culpa for taking this thread off topic, but since we're here, let me say that I don't take comfort in the idea that a divine father would condemn any of his children to hell (or let anyone else take them there). As Robert Ingersoll wrote:

"It [the doctrine of a loving god condemning his children to hell] has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men.... What right have you, sir, Mr. Clergyman, you, minister of the gospel, to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena."

I DO believe this doctrine----and, I DO sleep well at night! I may go insane, though (LOL), but.....

To me, it's like this..... It's no different from an earthly father promising punishment to a child, who doesn't mind him. I don't feel there's anything wrong with that, either, cuz it teaches the kid responsibility for his actions----among other things.....

As for the people who said they forgive Roof: I heard their words broadcast live, and the pain evident in their voices brought me to tears. I believe that all people are inherently good (their behavior is another issue), and I believe that they may very well forgive him, but at the same time, I know that saying those words is much easier than actually doing it. Parishioners of charismatic churches are as fallible as any others and/but face a lot of pressure to say that sort of thing regardless of how they truly feel.

Yes, I agree that some may feel pressure to say that they forgive someone----but, I have ALSO known people who have said it (myself, included), and MEANT it----though, it DID take time to heal. It has my experience that people (myself, included) who have an extremely strong love of God, are able to forgive much more easily.

You and I may forever have different outlooks regarding the nature of the divine and the sources and interpretations of the bible, but those are academic and petty compared to a person's true nature and actions. Please know that I respect what is likely your good character and kind heart.

Yes, I agree that we will "forever have different outlooks"----and, I respect YOU, as well, for being able to speak so civilly, about it.

Take care,

Cat

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androbot01
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22 Jun 2015, 12:01 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:

...blacks treat whites, badly, and now the whites are raising themselves, up,....

I missed the part where whites were treated badly. And what are they raising themselves up from?

Kraichgauer
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22 Jun 2015, 12:48 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

I'm thinking there's some "fuzzy math", here..... A generation, generally speaking, can be around 20 years----that would be, like, 7.5 generations, back----so, more than TWICE what you are saying. 3 generations back, would be my great-grandfather , and he was born AFTER the Emancipation Proclamation (and I'm not "20-something").

Even if someone wanted to say a generation is 30 years, that's STILL FIVE generations!!

Regardless, IMO, the point IS, NO ONE living today, has experienced it! No Black person living today, has experienced THAT slavery; and, no WHITE person living today, has been THAT Slave owner!!

IMO, MORE-than-enough time has passed, because of this (no one being alive), and those who want to keep it alive, are doing so, to have a reason to perpetually whine. SURE, LEARN from the past----so that it is not repeated----but, don't LIVE the past!!

I'll go with your math because mine sucks.
And I still think it's not enough time. The repercussions of slavery are not just about the dead. The U.S. did not go from slavery to equality with emancipation. Yours is a society that is built on the exploitation of an entire group of people. That the Confederate flag still flies in S.C. is testament to this.

True, we did not go from "slavery to equality with emancipation"----BUT, IMO, it would take BOTH sides----WHITES and BLACKS----for racism to end. IOW, Blacks are now exploiting WHITES, IMO, in not letting "the slavery thing" GO, and throwing it in our faces with every other exhalation----but, nobody's gonna feel sorry for whites, cuz look what we did to THEM. It's circular----whites treated blacks, badly, and they raised themselves UP----blacks treat whites, badly, and now the whites are raising themselves, up, and saying "I'm not putting-up, with this, anymore".

(Note: I am, in NO way, condoning what this kid did, in S.C.----I think it's HORRIBLE, and my heart BREAKS, for them.)

The fact that white police officers can kill blacks without cause - then get away with it, all the time praised by the media right - shows how blacks are still being treated badly. "Throwing" slavery into the faces of whites hardly compares.

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AspieUtah
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22 Jun 2015, 12:52 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

True, but the Knockout "game" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockout_game ) does rise the level of violent criminal assault. In fact, the obvious selection of victims based on race makes such an activity a federal hate crime, too.

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androbot01
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22 Jun 2015, 1:19 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

Are you comparing the knockout game to slavery? Also, is this game always black against white?

Campin_Cat
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22 Jun 2015, 1:22 pm

androbot01 wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

...blacks treat whites, badly, and now the whites are raising themselves, up,....

I missed the part where whites were treated badly. And what are they raising themselves up from?

Then you don't live in a major metropolitan U.S. city, and face the discrimination that I, often, do, because I'm white----but, again, that doesn't matter because of slavery (what whites did to blacks).

What they're raising themselves up, FROM, is the tide changing, and whites being oppressed, now.....

Campin_Cat
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22 Jun 2015, 1:33 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

The fact that white police officers can kill blacks without cause - then get away with it, all the time praised by the media right - shows how blacks are still being treated badly. "Throwing" slavery into the faces of whites hardly compares.

No, it doesn't compare----but, blacks are doing alot more than that. Of COURSE they're not hangin' a white person in a tree, everyday----but, then, they'd get thrown in the clink, for that..... A person can be verbally abused to the point they can't take it anymore, and retaliate----and, unfortunately, I'm afraid that MAY be what's causing the police brutality----and, maybe even, a catalyst for Roof's actions.....

AspieUtah
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22 Jun 2015, 1:35 pm

androbot01 wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

Are you comparing the knockout game to slavery...?

No more so that Kraichgauer questioning police shootings (and killings) of black citizens would be a comparison with slavery.

androbot01
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22 Jun 2015, 1:44 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

...blacks treat whites, badly, and now the whites are raising themselves, up,....

I missed the part where whites were treated badly. And what are they raising themselves up from?

I live in Kingston, Ontario and we have our own past bad deeds, mainly residential schools, which have been rightly called genocidal.
But demographics: Black and white and Middle Eastern, European, Asian, etc. It truly is a melting pot and it's great. No one cares any more.
But Canada didn't embrace slavery. It is dangerous to live close to those who have grievances against you (eg. the middle east.)
I am interested to hear your experience of urban whiteness. There's employment equity, and it would suck to have qualifications disregarded, but that doesn't compare to the enslavement of others.
I'm a western white woman, so I'm doing okay. What are the racial problems you face.

AspieUtah
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22 Jun 2015, 2:09 pm

androbot01 wrote:

...Canada didn't embrace slavery....

Most of the United States didn't embrace slavery, either. The states that had prohibited it before 1865 outnumbered those that accepted it. Canada also had slavery ( https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Slavery_in_Canada ) throughout its history until 1833 (not long before the United States abolished it, too).

Kraichgauer
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22 Jun 2015, 2:12 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

Are you comparing the knockout game to slavery...?

No more so that Kraichgauer questioning police shootings (and killings) of black citizens would be a comparison with slavery.

When did I compare the two? My point was was that racist dehumanization is still in existence because of slavery.

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androbot01
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22 Jun 2015, 2:13 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

...Canada didn't embrace slavery....

I know...we are far from squeaky clean. There was also the internment of the Japanese. History is full of ugliness for us both.

AspieUtah
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22 Jun 2015, 2:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

Are you comparing the knockout game to slavery...?

No more so that Kraichgauer questioning police shootings (and killings) of black citizens would be a comparison with slavery.

When did I compare the two? My point was was that racist dehumanization is still in existence because of slavery.

You didn't and neither did I.

Kraichgauer
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22 Jun 2015, 2:16 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

Really? Really? I think maybe you should reread and re-access what you had just written, because it definitely sounds like blaming the victim, and justifying the actions of not only bullies with badges, but also those of a racist psychopath.

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Campin_Cat
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22 Jun 2015, 2:18 pm

androbot01 wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

...blacks treat whites, badly, and now the whites are raising themselves, up,....

I missed the part where whites were treated badly. And what are they raising themselves up from?

I live in Kingston, Ontario and we have our own past bad deeds, mainly residential schools, which have been rightly called genocidal.
But demographics: Black and white and Middle Eastern, European, Asian, etc. It truly is a melting pot and it's great. No one cares any more.

Well, that's great that everyone is getting-along----but, IMO, at least PART of that is because no one is throwing your "past bad deeds" in your face, on a daily basis.

But Canada didn't embrace slavery. It is dangerous to live close to those who have grievances against you (eg. the middle east.)
I am interested to hear your experience of urban whiteness. There's employment equity, and it would suck to have qualifications disregarded, but that doesn't compare to the enslavement of others.
I'm a western white woman, so I'm doing okay. What are the racial problems you face.

Yes, employment problems, and services problems.....

It doesn't matter, though, cuz nothing I say will convince you otherwise, because you don't think anything will compare to slavery----and, like I said in a post to someone else, unless a white person is swingin' in a tree, everyday, it's always going to be "Awww, poor black people".....

ASDers, though, for instance, know that abuse / oppression isn't always physical----and, white people, right now, are feeling verbally abused by blacks----GENERALLY speaking, of course----and, they're starting to retaliate, and I've seen the dark cloud, overhead, for some time now.....

Kraichgauer
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22 Jun 2015, 2:20 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Sure, those who participate in the "knockout game" are a bunch of scumbag racists in their own right. But that hardly reaches the degree of racism perpetrated by whites on blacks.

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